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+---- Thread: League of Legends (/showthread.php?tid=14745)
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League of Legends - Tyr - 08-20-2010
I really don't see JitB being necessary in order to kill. They haven't changed his burst and many times both playing and seeing Shaco, people just die from the burst. Only time people seem to bother with proper JitB placement is when blocking off escape routes, but if it's a side lane, there's only going to be 2 (if they're past the corner of the 'jungle') and even then Deceive will have so low cooldown combined with Lizard slow.
I really don't see it affecting his jungling/ganking ability. The clone thing however will probably further limit his Baron ability, while I think Heimerdinger can't do it anymore. Missing a 3rd turret? Daaaaaaaaaaamn.
League of Legends - Waffuru - 08-20-2010
wrong leo is wrong
League of Legends - Kaden - 08-20-2010
No, a geared Shaco doesn't need the fear and damage from a JitB to get a kill, but a geared Shaco barely needs the clone, either. What this will have a bigger impact on is the early game where just about any amount of CC can easily net you a kill or two. Shaco blinking in from river, dropping a box and then going after someone at 6 or 7 minutes is ridiculously common. The fear on that box is incredibly important for keeping the target, minions, and any other allies off of Shaco (especially if he doesn't have Red, but how often is that the case?).
I agree that none of those changes should really have an effect on his ability to jungle, though.
League of Legends - Tyr - 08-20-2010
Okay, try to see it this way. Standard jungle strategy: Get level 4, hit a lane and get a gank by standing in the brush, wait for the opponents to push a little to hard then dash out and get a kill.
Olaf: Runs out with liz' and Q to slow the target sufficiently to truestrike to get them down with the aid of his teammate.
Udyr: Runs out with liz' and bear to stun the target so his teammates can run up and help.
Amumu: Initiates with 'toss to get a small stun in so the teammates can help, tho' most Amumus' wait till 6 for a guaranteed kill.
Nasus: Slows target, runs out, hits him hard, pretty much it.
Nunu: Pretty much the same deal as Nasus.
The list goes on and on, point being that Shaco used to be able to pretty much instant gib a target at tower with Deceive and maybe popping a summoners if they were below 50% health (and a squishy). Other junglers have trouble with that because they need travel time, but some can pull it off (depending on coordination). This change will not change the fact that Shaco can just use the same method as the other junglers.
New Shaco: Pops JitB behind the enemies and Deceives out from the bush. The range is big enough so that you can throw the JitB behind them anyway so they cannot run and even if they see you it doesn't matter, the smoke from a JitB always alerted the enemies.
There's virtually no change. You either push the lane, get exp or sit at your tower and get no exp because you're scared of the demon jester. This really doesn't change him a lot. Everything that's good about Shaco is still Shaco. Most efficient ganker, most efficient jungler (bar the fact he cannot '2'-man baron anymore). Madred's/Fervor still works on him, burst builds still work on him.
League of Legends - Kaden - 08-20-2010
We just disagree. It's coo'.
Deceive deserves to be nerfed and I'm totally ok with him not keeping his random-ass pseudo-blind.
League of Legends - Tyr - 08-20-2010
Yeah fair dues. I'll just still ban him every game. I don't see this changes making him able to be played again and even so, I can't think of anything even remotely worthy of banning instead of him since there's 3 other spots filled with those.
League of Legends - Kaden - 08-20-2010
It doesn't really change how likely I am to ban him, either. Unless the Backstab nerf ends up being much more significant than it sounds like it will, he'll still completely destroy any squishy and there won't be a single thing they could do about it.
I'm expecting Amumu or Galio to start picking up the empty Heimer spot on the ban list. Just in an attempt to counter the metagame that's trending towards AoE.
Do you actually not know what it means when people talk about the metagame or were you joking? Couldn't quite tell.
League of Legends - Tyr - 08-20-2010
I was joking, the sense of it was probably lost in over editing. So I just won a ranked game, now looking at team up, I'm going to lose one. Crap.
EDIT: okay so I won two games today and in both games, my enemy had several D/C's. I reckon the first one was a RQ but the other one the people who D/C'd whined that they were AFK. Did anyone else have connection issues today?
League of Legends - Kaden - 08-21-2010
Probably the most satisfying loss I've ever had. We lost our first nexus tower at 35~40 minutes.
It was a 72 minute game.
We made them work for it.
League of Legends - Waffuru - 08-21-2010
Here was my Heimer build by the end.
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Heimerdinger/141056465872438cb86f3c4a4882df66
League of Legends - Orion - 08-21-2010
Kaden Wrote:Probably the most satisfying loss I've ever had. We lost our first nexus tower at 35~40 minutes.
It was a 72 minute game.
We made them work for it.
It was crazy. We had only one turret on our base for a good five to six pushes from them, we held them off every time, sometimes even wiping them all out.
League of Legends - John Doe - 08-21-2010
Waffuru Wrote:Here was my Heimer build by the end.
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Heimerdinger/141056465872438cb86f3c4a4882df66
Holy shit I never knew the 3% thing stacked.
League of Legends - Kami - 08-21-2010
72 minutes is way too long. Damn. And that Heimer build is disgusting.
League of Legends - John Doe - 08-22-2010
I did the same thing, cept with 5 staffs.
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Heimerdinger/e0d4aa811737b087cd8df53184f8638f
I solo'd Baron with that build.
League of Legends - Ashe - 08-22-2010
Congrats.
EDIT: So here's something I didn't know till just now - Shaco clones do not have items in their target bar if you click on them.
League of Legends - Waffuru - 08-22-2010
Ashe Wrote:Congrats.
EDIT: So here's something I didn't know till just now - Shaco clones do not have items in their target bar if you click on them.
Oh, serious? I wish I would've said something.
John Doe Wrote:I did the same thing, cept with 5 staffs.
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Heimerdinger/e0d4aa811737b087cd8df53184f8638f
I solo'd Baron with that build.
Mine was in a real game though... not a practice one.
League of Legends - Tyr - 08-22-2010
Ashe Wrote:Congrats.On that note, found this little gem on the forums:
EDIT: So here's something I didn't know till just now - Shaco clones do not have items in their target bar if you click on them.
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=216098
It's 'little known trips and tricks' and it actually has a few really good obscure hints. There's no list for it though so unless you're bored (like me) looking through it gets a bit tedious.
EDIT: having read through it, I found the post I think Ashe got the information from, lulz.
League of Legends - Ashe - 08-22-2010
I hadn't seen that thread.
I like the suggestion of using Clairvoyance in the enemy base right after spawning to see how they split lane assignments so that your team can then assign accordingly to counter them.
League of Legends - Kaden - 08-23-2010
Ashe Wrote:so that your team can then assign accordingly to counter them.
It drives me absolutely insane when people REFUSE to switch lanes once they hit that outer turret. Heimer should not be in a lane with Nunu, for example. Just fucking switch. TF against Ezreal is a buffet waiting to happen.
And so on and so forth.
I just don't understand how people are unwilling to adapt.
League of Legends - Kole T. Merr - 08-23-2010
Kaden Wrote:It drives me absolutely insane when people REFUSE to switch lanes once they hit that outer turret. Heimer should not be in a lane with Nunu, for example. Just fucking switch. TF against Ezreal is a buffet waiting to happen.
And so on and so forth.
I just don't understand how people are unwilling to adapt.
Because mid is MY LANE, bitch. Nobody makes me change things before the game even really starts. Or even after.