Anyria discussion

[Tyr]

I couldn't really find a proper place for this thread, because I felt like Anyria could be a lesson for future HUBB projects.

So, the launch of Anyria came and it bombed. I know that I'm of little entitlement to comment on this, as I didn't develop it nor participate in it. The reason I didn't participate at first was because of a few trivialities that I eventually managed to overcome, but as I was about to dive in - I tend to write a roleplay prior to posting an application, to see if I mesh well with writing the character and to have something ready when accepted - it suddenly occurred to me I had no idea how to write in this new world.

Compared to Dragonball, I had tons of source material, both written and shown (in the form of the TV show) so I had a solid framework in creating a character, while still having a lot of the liberties a writer usually has with his characters. In Anyria, we have a (good) background story that explains the fundamentals and the very core of the world. There isn't a lot of information available describing the "fluff" of the world.

Compare Anyria to CDBZ, where we have planets that each have a description and a world map entailing how the specific world functions, some basic information about the planet, who inhabits it and the culture on it. While we don't have the same liberty of having different planets in Anyria, I do feel like it could be very fitting if the countries and major cities had their own sub-forums (where it fits, of course) and descriptions similar to the ones we have of the planets in CDBZ. Currently what we have is one thread detailing the entire world, but I don't think this is giving the world justice compared to how detailed the world could actually be.

I think Anyria could be a great place to roleplay and write in. We already had some interesting character concepts prior to the launch (Marusets FUCKING dirt mage for one), but I think overall people were deterred because the RPG isn't fleshed out enough.

Another thing I think Anyria lacks compared to CDBZ is a feeling of progression. Of course, PL can't be translated well into Anyria because we have crystals instead to measure our "power", but what I think could be awesome to add would be influence. A stat that measures how much say your character has in the world of Anyria that is ained by roleplaying because people hear of your character. Even the humblest shoemaker will become famous if he makes enough shoes!

TL;DR: All in all, here's a quick list of improvements that I think could really improve the RPG:

• Make the world feel big, detailed and real. Use the same format as we did for the planets in Chubbs to describe the countries and their history. Okay, so Alanyia is a militaristic leader, but why?
  
• A progression stat, like CA, that enables the character to have influence in the world.
  

So, yeah, I think this is constructive enough to improve Anyria. As always, I tend to write these longer messages at different times of the day so if there's something you don't understand, just ask and I'll try to clarify.

Anyway, as a way to contribute personally, I'll be creating a character later™ today and just dive right in. What I dread will happen however is that I somehow roleplay something that wasn't intended and ruin the intended "essence" of the game, but heck, if I do something wrong in the eyes of the creators of Anyria, just lemme know.

[Undrask]

I think that nobody wrote because nobody else is writing. Its a horrible, painful negative feedback loop. I almost wrote in Anyria BECAUSE it was a new world with nothing to guide me. I was excited for that.

It bombed because this is now a community reddit. Tis chill.

[Belle Hibiki]

Nobody is writing because the people running it never launched it. New things like this generally need some kind of saga to, in Reb/Alura's words, "kick us off," and there hasn't been one.

That's not exactly a surprise, though, when the people in charge of creating content are too busy doing other things.

[spoiler]In before Meer says "NO IT'S BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE SHITTY AND NOT PLAYING"[/spoiler]

[Alura]

Yea. I want to just find a couple people and do it myself, but to be honest the only Chubbs person I talk to on a regular basis is my wife. I really wish staff would 'kick us off', but if it's not going to happen then I'd rather do it myself with some writing buddies then let it die.

EDIT:

I agree the world can be more fleshed out but I think Mario intended to have us help him flesh it out through our writing. Also, I like the system as it stands now. The problem for me is just that we launched, but we didn't HAVE a launch, so to speak. The actual system, in my opinion, looks like it'll be great.

[Blue]

Player run sagas are best anyway.

[Orion]

I'm sure Kaden will say it better, but the fact that there is so little in the way of the worlds description was planned to offer greater freedom and creativity than what CDBZRPG offers. Here you are in ye db world and you're limited by what you can do/be/etc. Anyria is waiting for members to help flesh it out and actually contribute to it. Instead, everyone wants a staff run saga to hold their hand so they can write in some cookie cutter framework.

It's really hard to disagree with Undrasks appraisal of this place.

[Alura]

Asking for the world to be filled in, and asking to be guided along a intial storyline, is two completely different things.

EDIT:

I have a little bit of a problem with the idea that the downfall is Anyria is coming from the members. I'm trying not to start drama here...but how can you expect to create something, walk away from it completely, and expect it to just bring life to itself? An RPG requires a guiding hand, which is why an active (in character) staff is such a vital part of a surviving RPG. I don't think it's fair to blame us because the staff created something but either wasn't willing or able to keep it alive.

It just...it really irks me how the blame suddenly shifted in this conversation. Who's responsibility do you think Anyria's is, ultimately? The creators/staff, or the members who look to the staff for guidance?

I'm not asking for you to write the whole world for me. But you're asking me to jump into a world where there is NO staff activity at all. I don't like the idea of A) potentially waiting for a busy staff to be able to support and B) having a staff that is NOT participating in the RPG over-seeing all of the actions inside it.

[Tyr]

I honestly just want a framework to work with. I'm fine if it's left to us members to flesh out the world, but then I'd still like some sort of progression-stat while (eventually) having these threads to sum up what the members have written each area of the world to be, so we still get some sense of "canon" that we jointly created.

Also, people reading this and shaking your head, fuming and posting elsewhere, just post here, really.

[Orion]

Asking for the world to be filled in, and asking to be guided along a intial storyline, is two completely different things.

I have a little bit of a problem with the idea that the downfall is Anyria is coming from the members. I'm trying not to start drama here...but how can you expect to create something, walk away from it completely, and expect it to just bring life to itself? An RPG requires a guiding hand, which is why an active (in character) staff is such a vital part of a surviving RPG. I don't think it's fair to blame us because the staff created something but either wasn't willing or able to keep it alive.

Why do you need to be guided into a story line? You're a writer, aren't you? You can't work with what you've been given? I really don't understand how someone with a sliver of creativity could say that and believe it.

I honestly can't see how staff can do anything more than actually write the thing for you.

It just...it really irks me how the blame suddenly shifted in this conversation. Who's responsibility do you think Anyria's is, ultimately? The creators/staff, or the members who look to the staff for guidance?

I'm not asking for you to write the whole world for me. But you're asking me to jump into a world where there is NO staff activity at all. I don't like the idea of A) potentially waiting for a busy staff to be able to support and B) having a staff that is NOT participating in the RPG over-seeing all of the actions inside it.

Staff are responsible for keeping the place running, instituting rules, and giving incentives to write (a little). It's the community's responsibility to write. We can't put a gun to your head. If you won't write, there's nothing we can do.

Like I said, Anyria is supposed to be more freeform and malleable to the creativity of writers on this site. It baffles my mind that people who profess to enjoy writing (ie. making things up) can't make something up, even with a framework. It's like giving a kid a book and some pens to draw with, and then the kid expects you to draw the outline so they can colour it in.

We are watching the RPG. When people post in it, we notice. We can support it. I just don't see why you guys can't just write.

[Sage]

I really don't see what's so unreasonable about the requests. :x

It does seem a little bizarre for you guys to go to such effort to create a whole new universe and then just sort of... wash your hands of it.

[Kaden]

It just...it really irks me how the blame suddenly shifted in this conversation. Who's responsibility do you think Anyria's is, ultimately? The creators/staff, or the members who look to the staff for guidance?

wat?

In the posts prior to that one, not a single person said it was all the members' fault. In fact, the sentiment of the thread can be summed up as "staff let it die." Then you launch in on how it's staff's fault. The blame never shifted off of staff. The closest anyone came to blaming members was Undrask when he said "I think that nobody wrote because nobody else is writing." Staff fall under the umbrella of "nobody" and that leads to the exact point you were making.

Anyria was an interesting thing to see for a lot of reasons. Overall, I agree with what Undrask said: inactivity perpetuates inactivity. Yeah, there could have been some big kick-off saga. I made the conscious choice not to. I actually did mean to finish the thread but honestly lost my desire to do so.

The intent was to always have the world very loosely defined so the players would be able to do what they wanted to with it. Again, a conscious choice. Sadly, it seems that was not communicated effectively.

Directly addressing Tyr's point about power progression: it actually is there. Instead of just using a number, though, I decided to obscure it through the use of Crystals and Slots. Since more crystals = stronger spells, more crystals = more strength. No, it doesn't make for direct 1:1 comparisons of strength, but fits very well within the design philosophy I approached the RPG with.

Reb brought up the idea of Staff as a "guiding hand" for the members, and it's a good thing to think about. Philosophically, I agree with Orion. If you're there to write, you shouldn't have to have someone standing there showing you how you're supposed to do it. The literature provided about the RPG should do that on it's own (and, as Tyr mentioned, that may be lacking enough to cause problems). Practically, I've always done the exact opposite. In all incarnations of CDBZ I usually went with the "lead by example" approach to both staffing and writing. I didn't for Anyria.

There are definitely some lessons to be taken away from this. I'm not going to write Anyria off as "dead" just yet, though I don't imagine much will change. If people are interested in getting a saga going, I'm more than happy to help with that. I do have plans of writing there, myself, but don't intend on pumping out posts like I used to.

[Kaden]

I really don't see what's so unreasonable about the requests. :x

It does seem a little bizarre for you guys to go to such effort to create a whole new universe and then just sort of... wash your hands of it.

So, a couple of things. It was a mostly solo effort from me. It started out as an idea of Josh's. I started writing backstory and stuff for it and just kind of went my own direction. I'm pretty sure it ended up looking significantly different than what Josh imagined, in the end. Or maybe he didn't really have a "final product" in mind and mostly didn't care. Not sure.

It was sitting in the dev forum for a bit while stuff got worked out, but the final product was still completely at my discretion. That was a point I actually meant to make in my above post. People don't have to talk about "staff." It was me. It's easier to just talk to me.

From the initial reception I actually expected someone to post something. Like... anything. No, I wasn't expecting a ton of posts on a daily basis, but I was expecting at least one and I didn't want it to be mine. Staff being "inactive" is only in reference to IC. I was active OOC, answering questions and stuff for a while. When it looked like no one was ever going to post anything... it got harder to care.

This wasn't an issue of simply washing my hands of it.

[Tyr]

I knew Josh helped with ideas and that you wrote the backstory/chronicles, but I thought the rest was worked out among the rest of the staff.

[Kayne]

Anything I say in this post is strictly my blunt opinion, and it should not be taken as an attack on anybody. It is hard to convey tone in text, so bare with me.

The RPG in general (CDBZ included) just isn't working like it used to back before the turnover and the loss of the stat system that allowed the members to do their stats themselves. I think that a good portion of the problem with activity could come from there not being any real incentive to do anything, let alone write.

The old stat system we had under Jeroen (however ghetto it was), gave everybody something to look forward to every week, and compare their stats to others and such. While the new system(s) offered something similar, they're tedious in upkeep, and with only one or two people really updating anything (I can think of one that busts their ass on this board and deserves some kind of award, and I say that without partiality and with no offense to anybody else), it is difficult to give interest when there is no interest from the people who are running it, and waiting long periods of time (even going into over a week or more before something is updated) is very discouraging.

This is going to sound like me being an asshole, and this is difficult for me to say, much less say in a manner that could be taken as something that perhaps should be given some consideration. It's not going to make me popular, but here goes: Being staff should not be a glorified Super Best Friends club. You can still be good friends and not have a special place in the Staff Club. Reserve that for people who do stuff to keep the place running. The very definition of staff (according to Dictionary.com) is

staff    [staf, stahf] noun, plural staffs for 1–5, 9; staves  [steyv] or staffs adjective, verb
noun
1.
a group of persons, as employees, charged with carrying out the work of an establishment or executing some undertaking.

If you're not doing something to keep things going, or bring ideas in and get something productive going, then its time to cut dead weight and see if bringing new blood in who can. Right now, as it stands, it feels like the entire place is rather stagnant and it's just groundhog day, day after day. There's nothing NEW or anything to whet people's appetites to write. There's no TEASERS. There's no new items, no new features (however small they are). Not asking for a complete revamp, but what about patches to introduce a couple of new things a month or something and writing a teaser post to give something for everybody to look forward to. If there is a REASON to write, I can guarantee that activity all around will pick up, even if it is slow to start.

I've been staff before, so I know how both sides operate, however brief my tenure was. There used to be some action going on behind the scenes, but try to see it from the point of view of the member. If there's nothing going on over here, not even some kind of teaser, or newsbit, something to engage interest and anticipation, it's going to look like nobody cares. If the people who are supposed to care no longer appear to care, then why should anyone else? Anryia is your guys' vision, and I feel that at least giving people a lead in of some sort could stimulate interest.

I think the point Reb is trying to make is that we're at a point where we need someone to take a lead. Not asking for a massive post that people are just going to give up on a few paragraphs in, just something as an introduction to get people interested and anticipate writing for it.

A note here is that I brought up the stat system as an example, and not just an excuse to bitch about it.

Again, no disrespect intended with this post, and I really hope it helps.

[Kaden]

...

I'd like to stay focused in this thread. Stagnation is an issue on CDBZ and most of your post was directed that way.

Like I said, I made the conscious choice to not have a saga immediately. That was a deal-breaker for some people, it seems, and I expected that to some degree.

[Kayne]

I'd like to stay focused in this thread. Stagnation is an issue on CDBZ and most of your post was directed that way.

Like I said, I made the conscious choice to not have a saga immediately. That was a deal-breaker for some people, it seems, and I expected that to some degree.

Perhaps it might not be a bad idea to do something.

[Blue]

Well, in terms of Chubbs in general, I think the writing isn't like it used to be because we all grew up. When we became adults, adult responsibilities took precedence over creative writing. Eventually we got to the point where even if we had time to write, we couldn't work up the motivation. Of course, this is mostly my situation, but I think it applies to most of us here.

I don't think a saga will make or break Anyria. Perhaps a little bit more backstory would help though. I mean, if I wanted an open world to do anything I wanted in, I'd write on my own. Part of writing in a group forum is the world structure. Mainly, the big picture. I picture the RPG like a house. Chubbs was a full-decked out structure, complete with furniture. While that's nice to look at, it restricts what a new occupant might be able to bring in. Anyria, on the other hand, is kind of like looking at an empty plot of land. Maybe with the framework of a home built up. That gives a lot of options to a new occupant, but the work needed to get to that point can be daunting. As well, it's nowhere near as pretty as the fully-decked out home.

I feel like I might have been confusing there. Basically, all I'm saying is the flesh out the world a bit more. Sure, give the writers the ability to make the world their own too. But don't neglect a player's desire for a nice world in which to write.

All of this said, I'll work on something tonight. Course, with my track record, I can't promise anything.

[Alura]

@Mario:

Thank you for the response. It sounds like you still care about the RPG and honestly, that's good enough for me. I hope that something happens from your side of things to get people motivated, and I'll be ready.

[Jonathan Meer]

If you're not doing something to keep things going, or bring ideas in and get something productive going, then its time to cut dead weight and see if bringing new blood in who can.

The fundamental point of the shift to the Hub was to decentralize the CDBZ staff as STAFF™, and instead create a model wherein anyone can create a Node and administrate it as they see fit. There is no CDBZ bureaucracy.

If you want something that isn't stagnant, make it. This is a community. That's how this works.

[Alura]

So, with that said, I would love to create region descriptions similar to how we created the planet descriptions back in the day. If Mario doesn't have the desire at the moment to make them, I say do what Meer is suggesting - let the willing members help out =). I cannot possibly be the only one willing.