The RIOT Act

[Jarka]

That was a general 'you' not a jarka 'you'.

Either way, I'd argue that Ori or Nid are better taken in roles other than support because they are just wayyyy better that way (because they need said farm). Sort of the point of the ranged AD/support setup is that you let the ranged AD farm so they can carry, and you are just there to enable that. Nid and Ori, while I guess they can fufill that role, are sub-optimal to other champ choices in addition to being way better in a solo mid or solo top spot. Same goes for cho'gath for top/jungle, and yes I know you enjoy support cho down bottom.

My point is, if someone wants to play the support/ad carry bot setup, then said someone should go into it with a champ that works with that. That means champs other than ones you need to compete for last hits with, because now you're just defying the very setup you intended to play. If you don't, then well anything goes I guess.

I do agree about the post-laning phase stuff.

What happens in a game where there is not a support champ? Does bot not compete for last hits in that setup? Why is that any different than laning with somebody with a decent heal/shield (with enough AP) and takes CV while still outputting tons of damage?

I actually quite enjoy laning solo and jungling, but our team comp rarely allows for it (since Weemus or Mal usually call dibs on solo top, Tryg/Weemus/Anz/Dariden for jungle, and we have 394 people that play AP casters for mid).

Anyway, my point is that even in an AD carry plus support lane, "support" does not mean "sits there and does nothing," especially not after the changes that Riot made. I have always taken it to mean "has to focus on damage output, controlling the enemy team, AND keeping their team in a better situation than the enemy at all times." Sometimes that means competing for last hits, just like if it were an AD carry and a bruiser or any other champ.

There are really only three support champs (Sona, Soraka, Taric) that can scrape by without any farm, and even then, it is really fucking frustrating when your heals aren't enough to save your teammate thanks to a nerfed base stat and an outdated laning strategy.