[LoM] Aftermath

[Ashe]

There you go. All information on the table. Regarding the final detonation of Kog'maw to kill Vad, I don't actually have that in my inbox, so I can only assume that to help me wrap things up I texted him on my phone or something.

[Mal Nova]

Hmmm....

Hehehehe



Twisted Fate - Destiny -Each night you may choose a target and reveal the name of that player's role to yourself, as well as a description of their abilities. Town. Night role.



"There is one ability that I immediately changed as I was sending it out - Twisted Fate. The original version of this was going to only inform the opponent of what their character was but no further information. It would not reveal abilities or anything else. The moment I saw it going to Mal Nova in his first Mafia game, I had a choice to make. I could either leave it as is and risk it scarring his enjoyment of the game as he had not played LoL before and thus could not be expected to know anything about the characters, meaning outside of announcing their names to other players who could believe or disbelieve him at will, his ability was entirely useless to him as a person - he couldn't even begin to deduce what their possible skills were.

So I added the tweak that it would say their ability as well despite really not wanting to give that information."






Hmmm You know... I guess thinking about it you did make it my character a bit strong. But in the end ..you got me into mafia and into LoL.







"But what if there wasn't another role and Kaden's was as good as it got? Mal Nova knew what his own role was, but could he trust in Kaden's claim that only he could say for certain what Josh's role and alignment were? What if Kaden himself were the mafia member?"

I took a chance.... I had D'd Doe, and assumed his Thing met town criteria... If things flucked later I could use it again. Who thinks about Mal Nova? Plus still revealing myself meant harmful.... At that time I had Doe...Whompt...and Meer in my thoguhts and maybe even Vad.... just from hearing about past.... and watching and looking over a game or two.


"Mal Nova starts getting suspicious or paranoid and tells me to use Destiny on "Johnathan Meer".




Hehehehe Like mI said it was whompt then Meer after Doe that were my choices. And I also realized that a mafia might vote for a mafia to throw off... mean theres alot of tech you might not think about.


"This lead to Mal Nova being able to swing the votes against Meer, causing them to be:

Meer - 8 votes
Waffuru - 3 votes"

Heh. I read the Opening chat... and after much thought I knew that I would have to 'Trygelan' this shit... and give no fucks and out what i really thoguht was a mafia ability. I did.





"Mal and I had the following conversation: "Congratulations! You have revealed the mad alchemist, Singed!

His ability is that... if someone used a targeted ability on him during the night, they would receive their result and then promptly die afterwards, if they were not protected from a kill attempt.

You were also given immunity to targeted abilities (such as Mafia execution and Cho'gath Feast) tonight and immunity to lynch votes tomorrow by Kayle, the war angel.

Sadly, Singed's poison is not a targeted ability but a triggered result of you targeting him, which means that you are now dead. You are not able to post your find into the new thread."

His response was "So Soraka didnt protect me lol", continuing the MAJOR assumption that had perpetuated through the game. Since he is out of the game, I inform him that "Soraka isn't a protection role." to which he only says "Oh lol"


This annoyed me. Lol. I guess someone could have saved me... Shen? But didnt.

"None of them has even remembered that Jarka said her ability is a defense and removes 3 votes from her as long as she types in white..."

I respond that "She said it removes 1 vote, but yes, I've already noticed they are missing that. In addition to some other hidden information.

HUGE risks are being taken.

I'm expecting a stalemate."


I dont know why... but either they have a track record of being mafia... or/but... and But for some reason they just felt off for me... Call it my gut... call it whatever,,,,


But I didn't cheat... I enjoyed it to much to ruin it like that. I think I talked about it only once on aim... and whoever it was was already out the game and I tihnk i already was and we discussed what had happened thus far and where we thought it would go or something. I didn't cheat. Didn't need to.

But Yeah...I did enjoy it. Had to Take the spotlight after Kaden got got>_><_< =P It was one of the three moves that got us the win...






IN retrospect... I'd mix it up making a chance for what could be good guy ...be evill and vice versa.. and leave the day phase actions/night phase.. more open with what you say.

[Mal Nova]

For the record...I HATE YOU! I'll be first mafia target next game...even more then Kaden... YOU RANGAJEW BASTARD!( This is not a flame but a joke)

[Ashe]

I would call you MVP, though I have no idea how. That said, of anyone's actions, Amumu's actions were the one's that had the largest effect on the game. Both Twisted Fate and Warwick would have died on night 2 had Amumu not ulted there, leaving both investigative roles dead after night 2. The entire game could have had a heavy swing in the opposite direction.

EDIT: Also, no one's ability could have directly saved you from dying as a result of investigating Singed. If you chase Singed, you die, everyone knows that. There may have been an interaction in there that, if it had come up, might have saved you (but I am unaware of one) but if there was, it was the type of interaction that would have likely not occurred.

[Rafael]

I call reverse MVP. I accomplished exactly nothing with my ability, lol

[Ashe]

I call reverse MVP. I accomplished exactly nothing with my ability, lol

Ultimately, no. But you attempted to use it. Pantheon did the absolute least in the game, and then we never actually saw Zilean and Urgot's abilities get used.

[Jonathan Meer]

I was not expecting the Mordekaiser flavor-text in Day 3 or 4 or w/e to essentially outline, in full detail, the entirety of the ability.

Had I known that, I almost certainly would not have ghosted Kaden.

EDIT: Haha, reading this only makes the townie's dumb luck that much more ridiculous. I was hoping the full reveal would somehow justify it.

[Vad]

I'll claim the "Pwned" award.

[Ashe]

I was not expecting the Mordekaiser flavor-text in Day 3 or 4 or w/e to essentially outline, in full detail, the entirety of the ability.

Had I known that, I almost certainly would not have ghosted Kaden.

EDIT: Haha, reading this only makes the townie's dumb luck that much more ridiculous. I was hoping the full reveal would somehow justify it.

No, I wish I had something of substance that I could offer for that. I absolutely don't blame anyone for (both directly and indirectly) accusing the game as being rigged or cheating. I know no one really wants to be seen as a poor sport by making such an accusation, but given the context, it wouldn't be an illogical thought if not for knowing the people involved and whether one would think they would do that or not.

When I was re-reading over those in order, I found myself scoffing AGAIN at the incredulity of how things kept working out. It was, in many ways, epic to see one thing after another, like watching a series of back to back highlights. In other ways, I was incredibly frustrated because I openly felt that every single time I thought the mafia were being cut a break, the town (completely unaware) just had the exact perfect way to capitalize or counter this change of luck.

---

When Mordekaiser ghosted Kaden, it STILL would have worked out fine even if they no longer trusted Kaden, because he was still a majority vote contributor that could play the system (voting for mafia members which would cast doubt on those targets) while removing his Bloodscent from the game which gave them some relief.

But that would be THE night that Twisted Fate chose to, out of fucking nowhere, use Destiny directly on Mordekaiser. I didn't even see anything in the forums the majority of these times to be able to deduce why people chose the targets they chose.

Cho'gath not using his ability for a while and just suddenly Feasting on Kami? For real? I have no idea where that shit came from.

I'm either fucking terrible at this game as far as deduction goes or people were straight taking shots in the dark and striking gold with them. Which side is the answer falls entirely down to who was on which side of the alignment fence.

Ultimately, I feel that missing the mafia kill on day one is what created the initial domino effect and the mafia was behind trying to stop it (and getting thwarted) from that point on. It was just a simple tempo problem where the mafia could not try to control the flow of the game because they were, from the first night, one step behind having to react to the newest threat.

---

I learned a lot from this game. I can't promise future games will be flawless, but there is definitely a lot that I learned from this game. If I were to run this game with these exact characters and abilities, I know of at least 3 characters that I would make substantial modifications to their ability for balance reasons. That said, future iterations of this game may not include the same characters or might even have a character using another ability entirely. That will be part of the hidden information. Some characters might find another character using the same mechanic they had the previous.

The greatest thing that I learned, however, had nothing to do with the characters and their balance but more so with the management of the game itself. I kept great notes and stayed organized, in my opinion, regarding the background, but I needed to be better in how I dealt with specific issues.

I wish that I had the foresight to have not needed to make balance changes on abilities at all after they were given out, though I kept this to a minimum after day 1/2, only doing this again to preventing something possibly breaking the game open (Soraka + Cho). Now that I'm aware of some of the issues, I have better wordings planned to explain some effects and better rules notes for how certain abilities would be used.

[Jonathan Meer]

I will say this, one of my major frustrations with the way Mafia on Chubbs has developed is the use of elaborate role-types, without any prior indication. The primary dynamic in Mafia is the interplay between those who have information (the Mafia) and those who don't (initially, the Townspeople). Chubbs has decided to forego that dynamic in favor of exotic and abundant powers. Everyone has one, and they're all pretty damn significant.

It's not a bad system, but it definitely lends itself more easily to games that are all-or-nothing, on top of being plain difficult to balance in the first place.

I've always preferred Mafia when everyone knows beforehand what roles there are, and how many. Makes it possible to make actual deductions, rather than stabs in the dark at who's being shifty and who's not. And with that ability to make actual deductions comes the counter-ability to set mental traps (counter-deductions, let's call them).

That seems to be almost missing in the Chubbs breed.

EDIT: And again, this should all be prefaced with me very-much-enjoying, theoretically, the unique role-types that have come out of the Chubbs breed, as well as the rather interesting/funny strategies they've given rise to. It's too chaotic and gambly a game for me, but fun to watch.

[Mal Nova]

But that would be THE night that Twisted Fate chose to, out of fucking nowhere, use Destiny directly on Mordekaiser. I didn't even see anything in the forums the majority of these times to be able to deduce why people chose the targets they chose.

It was predestined. =D

All I can really say is...Trust the gut. I think for me it was more .... who sticks out, and who's sticking out by trying not to stick out. TO ME, that is.

Doe, Kaden, and Whompt just seemed to stick out to me. Meer seemed to stick out trying to not stick out. I found out who Doe was and that pretty much made me believe Kaden more then enough for then. Whompt was next but the Mummy stopped it all.

I had to decide whether to try again with Whompt or skip him and move to the next person and come back to him later.

After using it on Weemus and feeling pretty sure from the night phase and his ability he was mafia and catching him on it... I think Vad, and Josh were two others on my list to check... but something tugged at me to go back to Whompt..... Fucking Singed...

And I chase Singed all day! I like having fart contests with him and killing him =D

[Jonathan Meer]

Everyone tries to not stick out.

[John Doe]

Everyone tries to not stick out.

You must have been ignoring every single one of my posts then. :3

[Jonathan Meer]

Standard operating procedure ;D

[Super Buu]

I think the thing to take from random events is that random shit happens because it's mafia. Most people play lots and lots of mafia games so the results 'even out', but we've only played a few so for some reason we're hyperanalysing them and getting annoyed when unlikely stuff happens, which so far seems to have happened in every game. I didn't know what to say when people got annoyed in my game because guess what, mafia games are random as shit, get used to it. People even stopped posting in an attempt to win which is just silly in a game that's supposed to be throwaway fun.

[Jonathan Meer]

My point, though, is that newly-concocted, exotic rules that aren't known beforehand lends itself much more easily to chaotic, dadaist games.

At the start of the game, the Mafia should know what's going on, the Townspeople shouldn't. You can fiddle with that somewhat, but if neither side knows what's going on, there's trouble.

[Kaden]

Reading through this has actually made me pretty excited for the next one.

Hopefully coming soon ™.