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+--- Thread: One debate you don't need to have... (/showthread.php?tid=13630)
One debate you don't need to have... - Belle Hibiki - 02-17-2009
Wasn't Raditzu able to move faster than the speed of light?
Superman is only able to fly through the sun because the sun is his source of power. I don't think that means he could take that kind of heat if his powers came from something else. It's a special case in immunity.
The time travel thing, like the debate mentioned, isn't really a Superman exclusive power. He performed it by flying really fast against the Earth's rotation or some shit. Theoretically, Goku could do the same thing.
It's a stupid argument, in the end. Both have so many "I win" cards that any serious fight would probably be a stalemate.
One debate you don't need to have... - Sage - 02-17-2009
Superman once died and decided he needed to keep fighting, so he willed himself back into existence. He can do anything he wants, anytime he wants, even if it's supposed to be totally impossible. >=o
Superman is total bullshit, Goku's only mostly bullshit.
Total bullshit is infinitely superior.
One debate you don't need to have... - Kaden - 02-17-2009
Sage Wrote:he willed himself back into existence.
So that's why you'd want Super Concentration.
One debate you don't need to have... - Sage - 02-17-2009
I guess. I don't even recall the circumstances around it. I just remember going "oh what the fuck!? This is so totally retarded!"
Silver-age Superman is like the epitome of why I hate overpowered characters.
One debate you don't need to have... - Kaden - 02-17-2009
I think they should just rename Superman to "God."
It's not like they're actually fooling anyone.
EDIT: Do you think he could will anything else into existence? Like a taco or something? Cuz then I'd definitely want Super Concentration.
One debate you don't need to have... - Sage - 02-17-2009
I'm pretty sure he could will a fucking Mexican restaurant into existence.
EDIT: With Blackjack.
EDIT2: And hookers.
One debate you don't need to have... - Kaden - 02-17-2009
Sounds like my kinda place.
One debate you don't need to have... - Jack - 02-17-2009
Kaden Wrote:The question isn't who could kill who, it's who would win the fight.
Trapping someone in an alternate dimension counts as winning in my book.
Darkseid has used that trick to death. It works though, and I agree. Although it would depend on the setting, because the DC universe has a more traditional philosophy on the afterlife. You don't just bamf there, nobody visited Superman while he was dead. AND Superman could just go back in time, no longer being occupied with Goku punching his shit in, and avoid getting IT'd.
Neither the IT or the time travel thing are combo breakers, because a fight of this magnitude would traverse time, space, and dimensions anyway. Superman would catch on to the Spirit Bomb bs, not to mention how Goku can't breath in space, and exploit both weaknesses. I'm assuming neither fighter gives a shit, and Superman would just blow up as many planets with atmospheres/life as possible, essentially suffocating stupid-haired Son Goku. No Spirit Bomb (which Superman wouldn't let him charge anyway, this ain't no damn Shonen Jump) and no oxygen, the fuck he gonna do? DIE, that's what.
Infinite power > maximum power. Although there's no need to go into the philosophical debate regarding that, Superman has both. =D
I guess you can consider the numerous levels of SSJ infinite power, but I don't. They are just raised thresholds.
PS: Goku bleeds, Superman doesn't (ideally). He's the man of steel, Goku is made of fucking carbon, like a loser.
EDIT: I always look stupid taking this far too seriously. =(
Damn you all.
One debate you don't need to have... - Kaden - 02-17-2009
Superman wouldn't blow up planets and you know it.
Bil Baer Jaxx Wrote:You don't just bamf there
Uh... Goku does. Doi.
One debate you don't need to have... - Jack - 02-17-2009
I think about these things under the assumption that all the pansy-ass-boy-scout qualities the characters possess are thrown out of the window, and they would freely do whatever is necessary to survive.
If we account for personality, this fight wouldn't happen in the first place. They'd just talk it over like adults, and everyone would be pissed.
One debate you don't need to have... - Kaden - 02-17-2009
Wrongo. There are plenty of situations where they would fight each other. Most obvious being "fight or all your loved ones die, lawlz."
Doesn't matter, though. Nowhere does it stipulate that they can use all their powers and shit, but their personalities are irrelevant.
You can't just change the discussion because you want.
l2d
One debate you don't need to have... - Ashe - 02-17-2009
Superman is the very reason why I'm more a Marvel fan, and that they imbue human weakness into their characters. He's also constantly used as a weight in the argument that the majority of the population enjoys the depth of limitations being overcome, rather than unlimited potential characters that could do anything they wanted, and only don't out of simply deciding not to.
I think its basically a situation of "If the Christian God", and I say this entirely to provide a sense of identity here as while many religions to not feel that their deity is the same entity, it is still largely viewed in the same manner as far as ideals and powers, "were a superhero, he'd largely be a boring one, as there is not a very large market for the cool factor of a being being able to simply do anything it wanted at any time and the only thing stopping it is simply deciding not to." There's just no drama, no cliffhangers, you aren't sitting on the edge of your seat going "OH MAN HOW'S HE GOING TO GET OUT OF THIS? WHAT IF HE... just doesn't want to?"
One debate you don't need to have... - Celena - 02-17-2009
Kaden Wrote:I think they should just rename Superman to "God."
Sure. Let's just call a fictional character anything we want.
One debate you don't need to have... - Nibbles - 02-17-2009
Kaden Wrote:The question isn't who could kill who, it's who would win the fight.
Trapping someone in an alternate dimesion counts as winning in my book.
Yeah, Piccolo did that to Buu once. Then Buu yelled real loud and ripped through the fabric of space and time. I think he was shouting PWNT!
Sadly Time Travel > Teleportation.
On the actual good arguments brought up on something awful...
Firstly it seems most everyone is assuming this fight will take place in the Z fighter universe. I think this is because if it took place in the DC universe Goku would grab some green glowing crystals and beat Superman's head in with them.
+1 for Goku
On the point of time travel being different in the Z world(and it probably is as moving faster than the speed of light doesn't seem to have an effect on time) and regardless of whether you change the past you still end up in the same future you came from(as demonstrated in Trunk's case) it also demonstrated that even if nothing else changes you can change and get a hell of alot stronger.
+1 for Superman. Maybe. Lets see if he can still pull it off when the faster than a speeding photon doesn't work. Who're we kidding, of course he will.
Lastly, is ki magic? I don't think so. They classified the stuff the witch Baba(think that's her name. Roshi's sister right?) did and what Babidi did, and even the sorcerers in Tapion's story as something entirely different than ki.
+1 for Superman
One debate you don't need to have... - Kaden - 02-17-2009
Xena Wrote:Sure. Let's just call a fictional character anything we want.
I hope the immense irony of that statement was intentional.
EDIT: It's not like Superman could just blink and travel through time. He had fly around the world for a while. It would be pretty easy to just teleport in his way and stop him from doing that.
One debate you don't need to have... - Waffuru - 02-17-2009
Kaden Wrote:EDIT: It's not like Superman could just blink and travel through time. He had fly around the world for a while. It would be pretty easy to just teleport in his way and stop him from doing that.
Oh but not Silver-age Superman! He just spun in place and it only took him a split second to spin so fast that he could travel forward or backward in time. He's a cheater bullshit stupid character.
One debate you don't need to have... - Celena - 02-17-2009
Kaden Wrote:I hope the immense irony of that statement was intentional.
By that, I meant title, not name.
One debate you don't need to have... - Rem-13 - 02-17-2009
Silver Age had the power of plot. You can't beat that.
One debate you don't need to have... - Vad - 02-17-2009
Wish someone would make a series where for 100 episodes it leads up to this evil force taking over. Then..for the next 100 episodes, hero after hero dies, and the universe crumbles at episode 200.
I think it would be an extremely interesting spin. Letting evil kill everyone for a chance. Like the movie directed by Woody Allen about the guy who get's away with murder. I think it was Woody Allen.
Catch my drift tho?
One debate you don't need to have... - Ashe - 02-17-2009
Vad Wrote:Wish someone would make a series where for 100 episodes it leads up to this evil force taking over. Then..for the next 100 episodes, hero after hero dies, and the universe crumbles at episode 200.
I think it would be an extremely interesting spin. Letting evil kill everyone for a chance. Like the movie directed by Woody Allen about the guy who get's away with murder. I think it was Woody Allen.
Catch my drift tho?
So you want to see the anime X? (I believe that was the name, "X". If not, let's try "V".)