+- CDBZ Archive (http://alex.zulenka.com)
+-- Forum: Out of Character Forums (http://alex.zulenka.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RPG Discussion (http://alex.zulenka.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=125)
+--- Thread: Rank System brain dump (/showthread.php?tid=16920)
Rank System brain dump - Kaden - 07-21-2011
Sigfried Hunin Wrote:Well, because the activity bar works off of activity, it "obviously" works. I don't see a point of contention here. If it doesn't work then we'll figure the fuck out.
There's only one person on the site qualified to say what can or can not obviously work and neither of us are him. That's all I was saying.
Rank System brain dump - Alexander Trafford - 07-21-2011
Setting up a numerical counter that's automatically linked to activity, and setting up like image-based-graph-type ratings might be very different.
Rank System brain dump - Sigfried Hunin - 07-22-2011
I'm tempted to retort on the fact that it already is an image based graph type thing simply because I feel like I'm somehow being slighted in some small way, but instead I'm just going to say that yeah it might be different. I don't think it's very plausible that it could be THAT difficult, but whatever I didn't code the site.
I think I'm mostly just irritated at the nit picking nature of the original comment. I'm still in the process of getting over my irrational rage.
Rank System brain dump - Belle Hibiki - 07-22-2011
This is why we can't have nice things.
In regards to the 'retcon' thing people were talking about: the way I was thinking about it, one shouldn't have to 'retcon' a change from A-rank to D-rank or E, because 'A' is not a fixed level of power. The idea is that all the characters are steadily getting better, and a change in rank is a change in power relative to others.
To further clarify, if you get A rank one month and stop playing completely, and next month you go down to B rank, your character didn't necessarily get 'weaker' in the game world - they stay the same strength. It's just that everyone else got stronger, so you're no longer on the cutting edge - thus, not A rank.
That's how I saw it, anyway.
Rank System brain dump - Kaden - 07-22-2011
Sigfried Hunin Wrote:I'm tempted to retort on the fact that it already is an image based graph type thing simply because I feel like I'm somehow being slighted in some small way, but instead I'm just going to say that yeah it might be different. I don't think it's very plausible that it could be THAT difficult, but whatever I didn't code the site.
I think I'm mostly just irritated at the nit picking nature of the original comment. I'm still in the process of getting over my irrational rage.
You mean my comment? It wasn't intended to be nit-picking, if that is what you meant.
I know that a lot of customization had to be done to the forum's code in order to get everything working the way it is. It is really, seriously, genuinely deceptive how much work went into getting things to work the way they do. That's also one of the reasons the look of the site has remained the way it is; a lot of things were custom built into this specific forum style. Changing the look isn't as simple as just adding a new skin to drop-down bar.
The Activity Meter, according to Waff, was a very rare case of something that he could just drop in. That's why it was added. It was a neat little thing that just fell into place. Adding something like an automated rating system requires communication between the XP system (which wasn't written for that) and an activity-tracking system that isn't actually written (some of the code used for the Activity Meter could be used, Waff said, but it would be easier to just write it from scratch than force in some useable bits) and then fetch graphics to display in postbits. In addition, the forums would be fetching queries for information over months-long periods of time for every activated account on the forum; that could have a significant impact on the site's performance.
To quote Waff "we're talking about thousands of lines of code, not something that can just be dropped in [overnight]."
If my comments made you feel slighted, I apologize. If I had know enough to make this post immediately after yours, I would. I simply didn't have this information then. These forums have been significantly modified and I totally understand how we don't really see that on our end.
EDIT: This doesn't mean a Rank system can't happen. It does mean, though, that any system will almost certainly not be automated.
EDIT 2: I know this is going to sound preachy, but if you start raging, just step away from the conversation. People getting emotional in threads like this always cause the discussion to die. I don't fault you at all for being passionate about this kind of stuff, I definitely do the same thing, but keeping things constructive should definitely be our number one goal.
Rank System brain dump - Sigfried Hunin - 07-22-2011
I still don't see why we can't just take the EXACT BAR and use THAT with a tweaked time range? I mean, if it's such a pain in the ass to do a new thing, use the thing that already works?
Rank System brain dump - Kaden - 07-22-2011
Sigfried Hunin Wrote:I still don't see why we can't just take the EXACT BAR and use THAT with a tweaked time range? I mean, if it's such a pain in the ass to do a new thing, use the thing that already works?
Because it uses code that persistently tracks posts.
What this Rank thing does isn't that. It wants to survey XP gain over a period of time that has already happened. They're 100% different. I completely understand that they sound like they should be similar processes, but I've been assured that they are not and I 100% believe it.
If we did just use the bar that's already there, people's Rank would be changing on a weekly basis, and that's totally not what we're going for.
Rank System brain dump - Ashe - 07-22-2011
I know I've brought up something similar before (in context to an activity based rankings addendum to judgments) and one point that was brought up in contention during that discussion was related to "If I drop a bunch of shitty, terrible posts over the course of a couple of weeks that are very unimaginative but break no rules (but are overall the equivalent to mainstream radio), just to get my activity bar to a certain point (in this case rankings from xp), why does that contend with the very long post that someone else put together that earned the same total XP but was very well written?" The opposite is true as well, in that someone stretches the hell out of a post just to drop one enormous post each month to keep a ranking up and otherwise is inactive entirely on the site short of that post.
My opinion at the time of making this post, without putting too much thought back into it, is that this is entirely acceptable to me. I would feel that a roughly equivalent amount of time was spent on the posts, to the best extent as I am able to judge, and the differences come from the writer's side regarding personal quality considerations that I am unable to accurately judge in any form and thus won't.
Rank System brain dump - Ashe - 07-22-2011
Kaden Wrote:Because it uses code that persistently tracks posts.
What this Rank thing does isn't that. It wants to survey XP gain over a period of time that has already happened. They're 100% different. I completely understand that they sound like they should be similar processes, but I've been assured that they are not and I 100% believe it.
If we did just use the bar that's already there, people's Rank would be changing on a weekly basis, and that's totally not what we're going for.
I just saw this, and as you were THE largest contender to when I suggested similar regarding the bar, and seem very supportive, I'm honestly confused at what I'm not seeing about this proposal that makes this large of a difference. I'll re-read through Belle's post in greater detail when I can, but I'm not quite understanding the difference at this time.
Rank System brain dump - Sigfried Hunin - 07-22-2011
Kaden Wrote:Because it uses code that persistently tracks posts.
What this Rank thing does isn't that. It wants to survey XP gain over a period of time that has already happened. They're 100% different. I completely understand that they sound like they should be similar processes, but I've been assured that they are not and I 100% believe it.
If we did just use the bar that's already there, people's Rank would be changing on a weekly basis, and that's totally not what we're going for.
Honestly, if it's that huge of a deal to do it technically, I WILL PERSONALLY COUNT THEM BY HAND. There are like, 10 active members.
Rank System brain dump - Waffuru - 07-22-2011
Basically what you want is to have CA reset every 3 months and be converted into a picture?
Rank System brain dump - Rafael - 07-22-2011
Or just "Rank:C" even easier than a picture.
Rank System brain dump - Sigfried Hunin - 07-22-2011
Waffuru Wrote:Basically what you want is to have CA reset every 3 months and be converted into a picture?
I somehow feel it's more complicated than this but I just can't put my finger on how. That usually means that you're right.
Rank System brain dump - Waffuru - 07-22-2011
Rafael Wrote:Or just "Rank:C" even easier than a picture.
Text is "bland".
Rank System brain dump - Rafael - 07-22-2011
Could be a flashy letter, I.E. a picture of the letter vice in-site text I suppose. Whenever I think about the letters I'm picturing Fire Emblem ranks. Actual representation of power rank could be done any number of ways. Changing the color of someone's name on their posts, text color, a bar with "E" at one end and "M" at the other with the bar filled appropriately, whatever works
Rank System brain dump - Super Buu - 07-22-2011
Waffuru Wrote:Basically what you want is to have CA reset every 3 months and be converted into a picture?
I think the idea was IDEALLY for it to be updated every month, with the last 3 months of activity. But that would work too.
Rank System brain dump - Rafael - 07-22-2011
It is, with"*Depends on what the site can do." Quarterly isn't too infrequent I'd imagine if it's easier that way
Rank System brain dump - Belle Hibiki - 07-22-2011
Waffuru Wrote:Basically what you want is to have CA reset every 3 months and be converted into a picture?
Not really a CA reset. More switching to a dynamic system where power is based off of recent activity rather than a static, cumulative accumulation of points for a number that we don't even use.
The reasons for which I outlined in the OP.
Going to aside here, that these are ideas. I'm not trying to push the whole system on people, just to get thoughts going. The title of the thread is 'brain dump' for a reason.
I would ask that anyone who is going to shitpost, forcibly misconstrue what someone says, and argue about things in an nonconstructive manner please leave the thread.
Rank System brain dump - Piper Juunanagou - 07-22-2011
I think this idea sounds pretty cool. It allows for power to shift over time, while still making things moderately sensible (as Belle pointed out, it'd all be relative to one another). I lean toward 5 ranks, just because you can have C be the 'average,' while E is the 'retired' bracket.
Plus I like pips, they make things pretty. On the topic of pips, we should bring back some of the old items that use to buff your stats (like the armors and whatnot). Like, an item that gives you a pip in strength or something while you have it worn (as if we ever really enforced that rule, lol). That would allow for more items of value in the shop and give degree of further customization.
Rank System brain dump - Sigfried Hunin - 07-22-2011
I mean, I would honestly be willing to record keep on a biweekly basis, covering the total amount of XP gained over the course of the past 3 months.