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+--- Thread: Dana thread #9375 (/showthread.php?tid=40720)
Dana thread #9375 - Celipa - 09-28-2007
He has owned up to what he's done. He knows he did it, he hasn't denied it. And I'm not defending his actions in the slightest. But I do feel that forgiveness can be in order in the right circumstances, and he's been just fine on Another Destiny. I've talked to him recently, too, before he even asked "the question" to the members as a majority. I've been wronged by him before, as have others. Civil Unrest had been wronged by him when he used Violet's account as a means of reading our alliance forum before anyone else had even thought Dana would ever pull such a stunt.
That said, my vote's a yes. I'm not even going to say "keep him on a short leash". I think he's gotten control of his impulses and knows not to act on them. One of the traits I pride myself in is understanding. And I do understand where he was coming from, even if I wouldn't behave in quite the same way.
Dana thread #9375 - Krillin - 09-28-2007
I can name at least three people who distinctly said "That little fucker is never coming back to Chubbs", yourself included, Burt.
My answer is a firm "no".
Dana thread #9375 - Android-18 - 09-28-2007
Dana and I go way back, to Assassins and SH. He black mailed me 5 years ago, and harassed me publically. Over 5 years he has apologized, and then lashed out again and again. He has tried to frame me for his wiping those forums, and in many other ways. He's on a cycle. He'll do his shit again, no matter how much he seems changed now. People like him don't just change so easily. He did this shit 5 years ago, calmed down, and kept it up again. It'll happen again.
Like Krillin said, even you said we will never let him back. I'm starting to get tired of us banning people and then letting them back because we think they've changed. It's the internet, people can lie. He sure as hell pulled off being a happy slutty woman here. He can pull off being a happy changed man, too.
So I say no, no, and NO. Let him have his fun on AD, whatever, but if you let him back on Chubbs I will have NOTHING to do with him. He has tried to back stab me and frame me for 5 years for some bs reason. I've seen his cycle well enough from Assassins and SH. He's NOT well.
Dana thread #9375 - Janemba - 09-28-2007
I could say a lot about forgiving, since forgiveness is a good trait to have, but I'm not going to.
I could also point out all that Dana did wrong, give reasons why he shouldn't have done it or whatnot. But I won't.
To me, it comes down to this; Something went bad in his life. Bad things happen to everyone (Albeit, his was bigger than some). It shouldn't be an excuse to act like I've read that he did. Sure, Dana's a nice person to talk to most of the time from what I've experienced, but there's a limit. Something went bad in his life and he maliciously attacked two entire communities and betrayed a massive amount of trust. He had a right to be bitter at anyone he was mad with. That's a human emotion that he should have been able to deal with. He did not, however have to take out everyone else in the process.
Do I think he may have changed? Yeah. For all I know he's 100% better. But the fact of the matter is what he did was inexcusable. He was punished and he should take his punishment. I'm big on trust and friendship, and he soiled both when he did what he did. Taking out a good hundred people because he's not having a good day is bad from where I stand. I forgive a lot, but I have to say no.
Dana thread #9375 - Bardock - 09-28-2007
No.
Dana thread #9375 - Burter - 09-29-2007
I admit to saying he'd never come back. Same with Max.
I think we're making a mistake, though, by comparing it to Max. Max was an error. We arn't gonna know if letting Dana back is an error until he comes back.
My opinion has been changed and I do feel he deserves a second chance, because all he wants to do is write. That's it.
But, there are too many people who disagree with me, and the main reason I've always denied him entrance is because the members simply wouldn't like it. So it's looking like this is yet another no.
Dana thread #9375 - Whompt - 09-29-2007
He asked me my opinion, and I said that he should be allowed back, with restrictions on any board that doesn't directly involve roleplaying. IE: Don't even read them.
But, now that I think about it, I remember him using some sort of key-logger to get staff passwords. Yeah, he might be changed, but I doubt he deleted that program. If he ever does get pissed off again, there's a distinct possibility of him doing something horrendous. Unless someone here knows enough about encription to halt his program in its tracks... I dunno.
As most of you know, I'm a very patient and forgiving guy. Never hated anyone in my life and most likely never will. I think Dana has changed, and that he's a good guy down at heart. But he does have a history of... well, fucking people. Hardcore.
Not that my opinion counts, since I pretty much just chill OOC, but I think he should be let back in. At the first sign of him posting in any OOC board, or even looking in one, insta-ban. No warning. Straight to ban.
Dana thread #9375 - Bra - 09-29-2007
I have trouble trusting anybody. Friends and family included.
All of the amateur psychiatrists can blame it on whatever, it doesn't matter.
Fact is, if I can't trust anyone, why would I trust someone I know has caused this website a great deal of harm? My answer is 'no', but, as always, I won't throw a fit if the general consensus is otherwise.
Dana thread #9375 - Raditzu - 09-29-2007
No.
Dana thread #9375 - Krillin - 09-29-2007
Burter Wrote:We arn't gonna know if letting Dana back is an error until he comes back.
He made one of (if not THE) most malicious attacks on Chubbs. He repeatedly expressed interest in hacking into Chubbs, over an extended period of time. He's caused multiple problems with Staff on multiple subjects. He's successfully disguised himself and re-entered Chubbs (if only for a short time).
Just because someone might have changed (and note, we haven't a clue whether or not he has; I'm inclined to say he hasn't), doesn't mean we should just let them back into Chubbs. He did something horrendous, and the sentence is a perma-ban.
Dana thread #9375 - Janemba - 09-29-2007
Even if he's changed it doesn't change what he's already done. Even if he's as sorry as he says he is, it doesn't reverse the damage.
Dana thread #9375 - Bardock - 09-30-2007
Personally, I'm not comparing him to Max. I am basing my decision on his case and his case alone.
No.
Dana thread #9375 - Waffuru - 09-30-2007
Burter Wrote:At the end of the day, it's going to be up to me and Raditzu.
Raditzu Wrote:No.
I guess that settles that.
Dana thread #9375 - Violet - 09-30-2007
Just tossing another thing in here, I would love to roleplay with him again. As much problems that his ooc nature has created, he was a hell of a roleplayer, and Violet and his character(s) had some shit going on. It excited me. I strictly remember the hurtful remark by someone at one point in time, when me and him postwhored like a sonofabitch as "The Violet and 13 show". Couldn't really help it, its just the sort of chemistry that we had as far as our chars went. I would love to have that again.
Dana thread #9375 - Bardock - 09-30-2007
Being a talented role-player does not absolve anyone of the consequences of their behavioral problems. Period. I believe that role-playing shouldn't even be considered as a factor of a person's re-admittance, as that aspect had nothing to do with their expulsion in the first place (the only exception being if their role-playing was inappropriate, e.g., XXX pornographic). Furthermore, the level of skill of role-playing does not affect how a person chooses to act and present themselves in an everyday public or private setting, and that is an undisputed truth. So that argument really doesn't hold water.
If people still want to be his friend and talk to him, go right ahead. I won't tout anyone for wanting to be Dana's friend or having an occasional IM conversation.
Dana thread #9375 - Android 14 - 10-03-2007
My two cents (for all anyone cares) would be no as well.
From all that I remember RPing and a few select IMs with Dana was that he was a very good writer and RP, but there just always seemed to be something not quite right, just that underlying feeling that something was tense. I think it came through in IMs, it came through underlying his RPs and his ooc comments.
I think the hardest part too would be that there would always be that feeling of looking over your shoulder if he comes back, always that feeling when opening up your browser of "is everything going to be alright when I open Chubbz"
So like I said, nice person, good writer, but just not the right thing to do to have him back. no
Dana thread #9375 - Goku Junior - 10-03-2007
Try to think of it this way:
Perks of his "return": Another active member and with everyone saying how good he is, a decent one at that.
Cons: You may have to keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn't do anything wrong, but as far as this one goes, that's what staff should do anyway.
Other than those two things,
I guess my final opinion is this:
Yes. A portion of the staff has already said yes and Burter (who everyone is saying needs to make the decision), has said yes, Just make sure that he knows that he's on a short leash and that if he messes up, he's gone. Start a new warnings thread with him at level 10. That only allows him to mess up two minor times and then he's banned again.
Disclaimer: I know that I wasn't around, but I also think that people deserve another chance, no matter what has happened. I saw the analogy of something like "should we let a murderer get away with murder jsut because he is sorry and he has changed?" No, we shouldn't, but we should be forgiving, especially if they've paid their time. And seeing as to how the RPG didn't die, it was only attempted. lol
BTW, can he see this thread at all? And is there anyway I can get a hold of him? AIM maybe?
Dana thread #9375 - Uno - 10-03-2007
Goku Junior Wrote:BTW, can he see this thread at all?
No, but if he could, he would know that the people of Chubbs (mostly) don't want anything to do with him. I haven't been a very active member, IC and Ooc, but I know that he has caused a lot of damage to Chubbs. Sure, things happen in life that you don't agree with, but that doesn't justify messing with the staff boards just to get back at others.
As to my thoughts of him returning...a definite no.
Dana thread #9375 - Bardock - 10-04-2007
Reinstatement: 12
Stay Banned: 13
Dana thread #9375 - Kirano - 10-04-2007
Close.