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+--- Thread: yay or nay (/showthread.php?tid=41920)
yay or nay - Bojack - 06-15-2008
All genres go through what rap is going through right now. During the 50s, you couldn't get in a club as a "rock n roll" band unless you wore your hair like everyone else and knew at least 2 Chuck Berry songs. 60s saw Beatlemania, during the 70s everybody wanted to be like Zep. 80s was the worst, not only was this the beginning of the whole "image > music" thing, but everybody stole from everybody else. Hair metal especially. 80s had a lot of variety though; New Wave, Pop, REAL heavy metal, early rap, Sade, etc.
90s were commercial as fuck. Sonic Youth sold out, ZZ Top sold out, NU Metal blew everyone's ass. There was some good stuff, but the 90s. Just. Blew. And the musical impoverishment of today is all a fallout of how bad that past decade blew.
Now we have rap, going through the same cycle as all other genres. It's all about trends now, remixes, and a bunch of producers in Armani suits telling you what to make songs about. It's bullshit. Kind of a good thing though, because at least we know in the next 5 years or so, rap will be gone and a new genre will emerge.
But, that's mainstream. Underground hip hop is where all the talent lies. Maybe not the beats, but the lyrics and subject matter are/is a lot more in depth and, well, better.
EDIT: My favorite is by far MF Doom: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ewc1hixzYPY
Aesop Rock is pretty cool too. Roots Manuva, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien is OK (emphasis on OK), etc. It's out there, but how far you have to dig makes me sad. =(
yay or nay - Bra - 06-15-2008
Nappa Wrote:Led Zepplin is overrated. As is Lil Wayne, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Pink Floyd, and the Beatles.
While I sincerely disagree with you naming Sabbath and AC/DC, I won't prevent you from speaking your mind.
Zeppelin just... bores me. Cashmere is the only song that I can listen to without falling asleep.
yay or nay - Bojack - 06-15-2008
Kashmir
*stickler*
Try Achilles Last Stand if you like that one. Or an album... idk what to tell you. D=
yay or nay - Raditzu - 06-15-2008
It bugs me when people rip on a band for "selling out."
At the end of the day, people still need to eat. Heaven forbid they don't quit their band and work a shit job at minimum wage to be able to do so.
While being a musician can definitely be about the art, it's still a profession. At least in this day and age.
yay or nay - Bojack - 06-15-2008
True, but the people that do it for the money get little respect from me.
yay or nay - Pink Underoo - 06-15-2008
Bojack Wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1aAz3mNyic
Best post in thread.
yay or nay - Milk Bubble - 06-15-2008
Raditzu Wrote:It bugs me when people rip on a band for "selling out."
At the end of the day, people still need to eat. Heaven forbid they don't quit their band and work a shit job at minimum wage to be able to do so.
While being a musician can definitely be about the art, it's still a profession. At least in this day and age.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, but generally when a band "sells out" they start making music to apply to a mainstream audience and stop caring about the kind of old music they used to make. A lot of bands, however, have not done this and have "sold out" making the same music they've made since day one and I applaud them for this.
yay or nay - Mowgli - 06-15-2008
Burter Wrote:If he writes his own music, I'd say he's pretty talented. But I have no idea if he does.
"Threw the pencil and leak the sheet of the tablet in my mind, Cause I don't write nothing cause I ain't got time" - Lil Wayne
Wayne's been spittin' like HOV did for a while now. It's all formulated freestyles. Maybe he'll write a line or two down to insure he doesn't forget it, but the song is mostly straight off the top of his head while he's sippin syzurp. That's why I give him props.
Him as the person I don't care for honestly. He's a biter/swagga jacker like HOV. He once bit off a whole Aaliyah verse, usin' it on a song down to the last word. As a lyricist though, he's impressed me on more than one occasion.
Edit: As for selling out. I have to say I agree with Milk Bubble and Rad. Although sometimes I don't approve of the change, it's understandable and I respect it.
yay or nay - Dehan - 06-15-2008
Rap dead. It dead. Like ze kitten. It is dead.
![[Image: kittyisDEAD.jpg]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/jokerwild/kittyisDEAD.jpg)
See dead.
And Bojack I agree and disagree at the same time, I think in the next five years the only thing rap will be is one step closer to being banned in the United States.
yay or nay - Saz - 06-15-2008
Dehan Wrote:
Dude, you totally just shafted my picture.
yay or nay - Raditzu - 06-16-2008
Milk Bubble Wrote:generally when a band "sells out" they start making music to apply to a mainstream audience and stop caring about the kind of old music they used to make.
This is something you generally hear a lot of when people talk about bands "selling out," but has always raised two questions with me:
1) How do people know that a band stops caring?
They need money. Maybe they hate the fact that they're doing something just to sell records. Maybe they don't. I've never been one of the bands that's sold out (and I'd wager no one here has) so I can't really say.
2) Why is it a bad thing to change your style?
Some of my absolutely favorite bands ever have done through fairly drastic style changes. Less Than Jake, Reel Big Fish, Mad Caddies, just to name a few. I don't fault them for moving on, I applaud them for expanding their musical horizons, if you'll pardon the intense corniness of that.
(Disclaimer: I, generally, don't really care about music the way some people do. I'm just making conversation.)
yay or nay - Kirano - 06-16-2008
Burter Wrote:Nay.
Not because he isn't talented, but because he's just the stereotypical gangster, i-got-more-money-then-you rapper
LoL!
yay or nay - The Not Cool Not Tapion - 06-16-2008
I hate hearing people say anybody could be a rapper and that is isn't music and that it takes no talent. That is completely untrue. Before I found guitar, I used to be heavy into rap. I wanted to be in the industry either ghost writing or help producing and I've talked to a bunch of people, including artists and managers. I even got to know Young Blaze personally and he came to my town and performed a concert for me. He is from Chicago, if you didn't know.
Not anybody can rap. It takes rhythm, flow, a decent vocabulary, wit, and rhyme scheme. If you can record a track better than any of Lil Wayne's songs and you are a person who says rap takes no talent, then I'll believe you. Until then, kindly stfu.
I don't respect all rappers, I only like a few and I mostly listen to rap when cruising around because it's very enjoyable to ride around to and it's good for groups of people.
I wouldn't say rap is dead. It is just crippled in the fact that it isn't as good as it used to be. Nowadays it's just trying to make the best song to dance to and disregarding actual lyrics and wordplay, but rap is not dead. If it was dead, there would be no TRL or anything stupid like that. There are still millions of teenagers and others who listen to rap and rap is still going strong. Just because you and your friends don't enjoy it doesn't mean that it is dead to the rest of the world.
And to Bra, I realize Jack has his own opinion. I got frustrated because he was getting upset at everybody who disagreed with him and said that Lil Wayne was good. That was what bothered me.
yay or nay - Hellfighter 17 - 06-16-2008
Nappa Wrote:Led Zepplin is overrated. As is Lil Wayne, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Pink Floyd, and the Beatles.While a song or two from some of the bands may be overrated, the overall artists themselves are not.
yay or nay - Bojack - 06-16-2008
Black Sabbath is overrated. They didn't single handedly start heavy metal, damnit! >=(
yay or nay - Bra - 06-16-2008
@Rad: If I was in a band, my ultimate goal from day one would be to sell out.
When confronted by rabid fanboys shrieking at me for selling out, I would answer them in a fairly calm, collected demeanor.
"Fuck yeah, I sold out. That was the whole point. Thanks for buying my albums."
yay or nay - Raditzu - 06-16-2008
Same here. I'd sell out all the way to the bank.
yay or nay - Hellfighter 17 - 06-16-2008
Capitalism ftw.
yay or nay - Bojack - 06-16-2008
That's what's wrong with you kids today and your trash music. It's all about what will sell, not about letting us hear what your soul has to say. If you want to be some pop icon sellout, go ahead, but don't expect anyone to consider you a real musician, and don't expect other musicians to respect you. Evolving is fine (The Beatles), but wearing pink hats, leather jackets, and playing fuzzy white pillow guitars all of a sudden (ZZ Top) is not.
Stevie Ray Vaughan couldn't have cared less about how unpopular blues was, nor did he give a shit who thought what about his purple blouses. He knew he wanted to play the blues, and that's what he did. There's a statue of him in Texas and he will be remembered for a long, long time.
There ain't no statue of Pete Wentz. Nowhere. Ain't gone be no damn statue of Pete Wentz, because he's in the business of wearing eyeliner and showing the internet his cock. He's not in the business of expressing his soul through his instrument and giving the world the gift of music. /example
The "music industry" is complete bullshit. You can't put a fucking price on art. JS Bach walked 60+ miles through European ghettos just to see musical performances. Mozart could see an orchestral score of 50+ instruments, go home, and transcribe it all out from memory alone. He wrote music without hearing what it would sound like. Zakk Wylde played guitar 16 hours a day and slept through school. Eric Clapton left The Yardbirds because they were SELLING OUT, turning into a gay ass pop band that just wanted groupies and money. You can't put a price on stuff like that, and when you do, you become a douchebag.
Making it about money cheapens the whole thing and makes it gay.
yay or nay - Hellfighter 17 - 06-16-2008
My friend has a guitar signed by Zakk Wylde. 'Tis awesome.