Nori Wrote:You not playing wow is very relevant. Because you don't know how it effects the players. You assume it's taking away from the community, when in fact, it's bringing it back together. Pugging wasn't needed. If you still want to pug, you can. You just can't perform the same raid twice a week via pugging.

Kaden Wrote:Yup. That was the expected response.

If you're not going to see the conversation for what it actually is, then there's no point in me wasting my time. I'm out.

EDIT: And, for the record, I've played plenty of WoW. Definitely enough to understand the ramifications (or, specifically, the lack thereof) of this kind of decision. You deciding I don't because you didn't think I played was another point I was going to make. Doesn't really matter now, though.

Nori Wrote:U mad?

Quote:Until then, I stand by the fact it's not important.

Kaden Wrote:Nope.

I'm just not going to continue a conversation with someone who's not responding to any of the points actually being made. You basically said "you haven't played enough WoW" and haven't said anything else of substance.

Go back and look at your posts. I hope you don't think you've been expressing an "opinion" this whole time.

There's more, but that was the fastest. You're trying to tell other people what should be important to them in the game. And you're stating it as a fact.

L. O. L.

Nori Wrote:Please read my post, Mario. I explained why I believe that way, and you simply flamebait. Trying to tear me apart with a attitude just makes you look foolish. Address my points in the last post unless you are done. Which I'm sure we are. <3

Kaden Wrote:The "lol" was unnecessary. I do apologize for that, but how is "u mad?" less flamebaiting than anything I've said?. Otherwise, though, there aren't any points to address in your post. Either I prove I played WoW to an extent that you're satisfied with or I'm just turning this into something it's not. Since I already made a statement that I have sufficient experience to be able to comment on this topic and you didn't believe it, why should I do so again? Best-case scenario, I waste time restating something I've already stated and, worst-case scenario, you continue to not believe me. Either way, nothing to address there.

Your PUG experience has apparently been radically different than mine. Think grouping with new people who play and act in various different from what you're used to is an integral part of the game.

You've said that you had to PUG or you couldn't be with your guild. Now you have to guild or you can't raid. That's no better. It forces people into doing something that they weren't actually forced to before (no, the argument "but the rest of my guild out-geared me" is not a valid argument to me; that's you choosing to be with a guild that imposes more stringent standards than you can keep up with, not the game making that choice for you).

You can continue to say I'm trying to tear you apart, or flamebait or that I'm just looking foolish, but the fact is that you've been very inconsistent with your own stance. You started with factual statements about how PUGing was an abomination and then back-peddled to just stating your opinion to make it look like I'm being overly-aggressive in my side of the argument.

I have not held a single negative emotion towards you as a person during this conversation, though I know I tend to be overly-blunt and that, in turn, is regularly misconstrued as rudeness. I enjoy talking about game design philosophies and decisions and Blizzard is making a bad one.

Nori Wrote:You can still Pug previous tiers, Belle, so I fail to see how that even ties into the subject. Also, if your in a small guild, you can't simply replace people. If people can do raids just as easily with a guild or without, then what is the point of having a guild? Why not just stay by yourself and pug everything, and have the potential to be better geared then people in Guilds? The game is supposed to be about communities, like every mmo, and pugging encourages being a lone shark.

Belle Hibiki Wrote:And why the fuck is that a problem if the guild isn't going to do a 25-man anyway?

You can't even do that anymore. You won't even be able to do that when T12 content drops and people are pugging T11.

Belle Hibiki Wrote:I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. You answered your own question.