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+--- Thread: Importance of Stats - Staff Only (/showthread.php?tid=13421)
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Pinky - 01-12-2009
There's an imbalance in the game's mechanics: namely, Strength and Endurance constitute physical prowess but are two separate stats, while Focus covers all ki-related situations. This means that a character that is leaning on the physical arts of combat must split their % points between two stats, while a character that focuses on ki arts can use a single stat for both attack and defense (ki blast/shields). Doesn't this make fights inherently lopsided between these two major character set-ups?
30 Str attack < 60 Focus shield = ki is the winner
30 End block < 60 Focus blast = ki is the winner
1 Str attack < 60 Focus shield = useless attack
59 End block < 60 Focus blast = tie
59 Str attack < 60 Focus shield = tie
1 End block < 60 Focus blast = insta-kill
Comparisons above are simple for simplicity's sake. When I was working on N-RPG this problem dogged me, which is why I continued to chip away at the stat system until it was practically gone altogether. CDBZ plays by different rules than NRPG, of course, but the concept is the same: physical-stats and magical-stats need equal footing or one side is king by default. Being of anti-stat persuasion, I would submit that merging Str/End would be the superior fix than making up some new ki stat. This would leave one physical stat, one ki stat, and a neutrally-important third stat for speed.
If approved, I would also think that this would be a good opportunity to give players a chance to redistribute their stat %, if enough people are unsatisfied with the projected results. (guilty!) All the techs and abilities and traits would be left alone, so character templates would remain the same, but if this change happens I think people would be inclined to rethink their % distribution.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Belle Hibiki - 01-12-2009
Rod Hardwood Wrote:There's an imbalance in the game's mechanics: namely, Strength and Endurance constitute physical prowess but are two separate stats, while Focus covers all ki-related situations.
Wrong. From the Stat rules page:
Quote:Endurance – this is your defense. Everything from being able to withstand a kick to the gut to how you can hold out against an enemy’s energy blast.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Jonathan Meer - 01-12-2009
Endurance defends against both strength and focus-based attacks.
Strength and Focus are two different ways to attack.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Super Buu - 01-12-2009
Some people can dish it out, but they can't take it, and vice-versa. Tanks and rogues, yo!
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Pinky - 01-12-2009
That doesn't actually respond to my examples. Where do the "ki shield" type of techniques fall under? Focus or Endurance? I'd like to know what people who are gunning for ki shields think of this.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Belle Hibiki - 01-12-2009
A ki shield would simply make you more defensible than your ordinarily are. Although how much of a bonus the shield gives might be influenced by your ki stat, your base defenses with the ki shield up are not derived from ki. Ki is simply shielding a little bit of your End from taking damage, it doesn't replace it.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Kaden - 01-12-2009
Ki Shield is Focus.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Belle Hibiki - 01-12-2009
I'd have to disagree with that. I wouldn't want some stats becoming dump stats because you could cover it up with a simple tech.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Kaden - 01-12-2009
Ok.
Then forget I said anything. You guys can continue.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Belle Hibiki - 01-12-2009
I'm not saying you're wrong. You're staff, I'm not. Ultimately, your decision is what goes.
I'm merely saying that I disagree.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Kaden - 01-12-2009
Right. To which I replied "ok."
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Belle Hibiki - 01-12-2009
You said it in a mean way :-((((
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Kaden - 01-12-2009
Oh. Sorry. Not the intent.
If you do something with ki, it pulls from the Focus stat. If you get hit, it pulls from Endurance. If you use your muscles, it pulls from Strength. If you move around, it pulls from Agility.
I really don't see how it can be this complicated.
EDIT: What we're not going to do is sit down and say "well, if Bob's Focus is 60%, Joe's Agility is 40%, they have the same CA, and Joe RPed that they're standing 20 feet away, Bob would be able to hit Joe with his ki attacks 9 times out of 10."
I mean, come on. This isn't WoW. We're not going to quantify absolutely everything so people can min/max their characters. The stats are supposed to be vague so they don't infringe on someone's writing. Trying to apply strick mathematics to an intentionally vague system breaks things. And looks stupid.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Pinky - 01-12-2009
I was actually thinking of Rad when I raised this question. Figured he preferred Focus for shields because his Endurance stat was in the basement. But, if all defensive techniques - physical or magical - fall on Endurance only then that changes things. I'd recommend amending the Endurance stat's definition.
edit Well, it's obvious that things aren't clear enough, as you thought ki shields fell under focus. This is why I abandoned the whole incremental stat variance in the N-RPG system.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Kaden - 01-12-2009
Kaden Wrote:If you do something with ki, it pulls from the Focus stat.
Is it still unclear? I just want to know whether it's not understood or whether it's argument for the sake of argument. (Either is fine, I just like to know what kind of... discussion it's going to be)
Someone might not be able to punch straight through Kaden's Reject, but if he got hit, say, from behind, neither his Focus stat nor Reject are going to help him.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Kaden - 01-12-2009
Rod Hardwood Wrote:edit Well, it's obvious that things aren't clear enough, as you thought ki shields fell under focus. This is why I abandoned the whole incremental stat variance in the N-RPG system.
I thought that ki shields were based on the ki stat?
I missed the part where it was proven that that's not the case.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Pinky - 01-12-2009
Quote:Ki Shield is Focus.
Quote:I'd have to disagree with that. I wouldn't want some stats becoming dump stats because you could cover it up with a simple tech.
Quote:Ok.
Then forget I said anything.
I'm just asking questions to iron these issues out so they don't become a problem later. Also, I am the walrus, coo coo kachoo. :E
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Super Buu - 01-12-2009
I think whilst vagueness has its uses, sometimes it's better to make yourself clear in the first place, otherwise all you're doing is increasing the number of questions that have to be asked. =x
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Pinky - 01-12-2009
Exactly.
Importance of Stats - Staff Only - Kaden - 01-12-2009
I was being facetious in that second quote, Rod. =P
Kaden Wrote:If you do something with ki, it pulls from the Focus stat. If you get hit, it pulls from Endurance. If you use your muscles, it pulls from Strength. If you move around, it pulls from Agility.
I thought that made it clear. Then again, I thought it was clear from the get-go.
It seems like this is being made more complicated than it needs to be.