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+--- Thread: [BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review (/showthread.php?tid=16518)
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Jonathan Meer - 03-22-2011
http://cdbzrpg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28421
Closed in three days, as long as the 5-post minimum is met
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Jarka - 03-23-2011
Mal Nova:
Have you started using Word/Google Docs/Spellcheck? Because it really, honestly shows if you have. Everything seemed a lot more understandable than your work during the Invasion, and it makes it so much more enjoyable to read. I was a little confused by the vision at the end of your second post - you never said who it was, just that Mal knew her. The vision was clear, there was just no real exposition for the reader.
John Doe:
Oh man, I love John Doe so much. Your posts just ooze absurdity so well, especially with the Jonathan Doell alias in these fights. A downside to writing humorously is when the post falls flat, which, thankfully, doesn't happen that often with you. I would absolutely love to see a joint RP between Captain Edward Reynolds and John Doe sometime. I would probably laugh until it hurts and then laugh some more.
Eh, it's a tough choice, but I'm going to vote for Mal Nova due to the improvement in his writing that I noticed. He really stepped up his game, and I was pleasantly surprised. Doe, I do think your writing is stronger than his, but I felt like you didn't amp up as much as he did.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Victoria - 03-23-2011
Mal:
Hey, look at that, I read both your posts =P. Joking aside. You HAVE improved, but there were still a lot of errors that, for as long as you've been here, shouldn't be there. You misused "Too" a lot, instead you said "To" so, "He was to tired" instead of "He was too tired" for example. There was also a lot of sentences that were just...hard to understand. Do you proof read? I find that reading something out loud can help the structure of your story. One thing you should try to improve on is your use of aliases. It's okay to use them here and there, but you will often use two to three in one paragraph, they also don't need to be punctuated 100% of the time. But like I said, you are improving, it shows.
Doe:
Your posts were hilarious, I enjoyed them. I did notice you had some general typos, also, there was a lack of depth to your stuff. What I did like was your use of internal dialogue. You did it very well. I was slightly lost on a few parts, but I know fighting can be hard to describe. I think overall it was good, but showed that you invest very little time in your posts.
Although Mal has improved, I still have to give my vote to John Doe. His writing was stronger overall. Both of you did well.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Juno - 03-23-2011
To start off with, I'd like to say that you both did really well. This wasn't as cut-and-dry as I thought it would be, and therefore was a lot less easy on myself than I wanted it to be, haha. Very nice job.
Mal Nova: Mal, I've read a good chunk of your work in the different competitions we've been to. I remember that I used to think your writing was alright -- it wasn't my favorite, but it wasn't necessarily awful, either. The turning point, for me, was when you wrote that post about burying Tapion during Dante's Abyss. I really enjoyed that post, and so I've been paying more attention to your work since then. Let me say, then, that you have vastly improved. You are a much better writer than you were the first time I read your work - I was fully invested during your posts, and you have a knack for using your word choice to really emphasize the sinister aspects of Mal's personality. Unfortunately, you still have something dragging you down - at times, some of your writing can seem forced, as if you couldn't exactly think of how to say something, so you just said it, in the most straightforward way you could think of. And at times, that can make your work harder to follow. You also have some spelling and grammar mistakes that you need to iron out, but there were so few of them that I'm going to let that slide.
John Doe: I like Doe. He's quirky. He's funny. And you play him well. Like Victoria said, there was a distinct lack of depth to your posts, but I did kind of see hints of some underlying plotline floating around there. A little bit. I kind of wish you'd give us more of that. Overall, your spelling and grammar are good and clean. I have two main issues with your posts, but they're both relatively small. The first thing is that darned dialect. You use it well, and it's executed well, I just hated reading it. It reminded me of chatspeak instead of country bumpkin, at times. And that's more of a personal thing, as opposed to something actually wrong with your posts, so you don't need to worry about that. Secondly, your use of Doe's thoughts. They were hilarious - you executed those really, really well, and I liked the parallelism (sort of) you constructed between Doell and Doe; however, I'm really afraid that it's going to grow into something overdone, and contrived, so I want you to watch out for using it too much. Contrary to popular belief, there can be too much of a good thing. Or can there? Because if you have too much, it becomes bad, so it's technically not a good thing anymore... oh, whatever.
Overall: My final vote is going to, after a very back-and-forth internal monologue because you both did so well, John Doe.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Sigfried Hunin - 03-23-2011
Mal:
Using a word processor really helped ya out. I must say I was actually a little surprised with how well you did, and that is a good thing. I definitely respect you a bit more as a writer now, that's for certain. Still though, certain aspects of your writing were confusing and a bit hard to follow. I think you could work at making your character shine out a bit more, give him some more dialog, vary up what he's doing/thinking/saying so that we can get a more complete image of what this fight means to him and all of that. I liked the introspection.
Doe:
You make hard for me to vote for yas cause I feel it's pretty obvious that you just blew off your first post. It was incredibly short and not up to par with what I know you're capable of. I dunno why ya did it that way, but it really came across like you were blowing your fight for some reason. Where your first post left out, your second post picked up. It was pretty good, and I liked it. The "Hey! Look at that over there!" gag got a little bit old after a while, and I would have liked to see more variations of trickery and underhandedness that we all know Doe is capable of.
All in all, I vote for Mal Nova. The first post killed it for me Doe, and Mal stepped up where you stepped down. Good fight and I gotta say I'd like to see more form both of you.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Edward Reynolds - 03-23-2011
Mal: Your spelling's a vast improvement given your use of an online spell checker. Glossing over what you write should help you catch any strays/misused words that crop up (you use 'wonted' instead of 'wanted' at some point in your second post, if I recall). Your grammar has also improved, but there's still some room for improvement. To turn away from the mechanical, I'd recommend you drop one or two of your substitute names. After a while, the sheer volume of all those proper nouns just feels a bit… cumbersome. Perhaps if you just didn't capitalize a few of them (like 'jade fiend' or 'renegade' or 'imperfect namekian') it would be a different story. Content-wise, I feel that both of your posts were solid. I wasn't a fan of that weird bit with the lady near the end of your second post, as it left me confused more than anything else and took away from the pace of the previous combat-y punchy stuff.
Doe: (fux u Juno for stealing mah words) I think the whole 'Doell' thing is adorable, but try not to overdo it to prevent it from feeling trite or old. At some points I like your dialogue, and at other times, I'm wondering what sort of southern cesspool would talk that way. I also believe that your moniker 'country boy' should only have one set of quotes, rather than two (that's a random nitpicky thing, but eh, sue me). As a fan of 'limited' third-person viewpoints, I enjoy the constant internal monologue from Doe. The big flaw I had with your work was that I felt you just kind of went 'ohshi I haz to write' for the first post. It felt lacking, as if you just threw it together an hour before the deadline. Your second post was a vast improvement, and if you continue on to the next round, I hope you treat every post like it's your last post.
All that said, I give the fight to Mal Nova. I felt that both his posts were solid work.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Alexander Trafford - 03-23-2011
Mal: Your writing is much improved as your grammar, spelling and sentence structure in general have improved. Your posts are a lot more readable, and they flow very well. Your best quality as a writer is that you're a great storyteller. You keep the pace moving and the action clear. Your descriptive ability is lacking at times but the pace and action you put into your posts is excellent. Nice job.
Doe: You're a funny writer. I like the creativity you put into your posts, it's very unique and I dig it. Your description is a bit lacking, but overall you are a very competent writer. Your style compliments this site well, it's very anime-ish, if that's teh word I'm looking for. Almost a DBZ-Roshi-Krilling hybrid maybe? I'm not sure. But as a serious, noire-style writer, watching you do what you do is just that more impressive.
Doe is, overall, a stronger writer, in terms of style, structure, etc. His description needs work. Mal is a better storyteller. It all comes down to personal preference. I honestly don't feel comfortable voting between the two. So I'm going with a No Vote. But if Meer would prefer that I vote, I can reevaluate my choices.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Shou - 03-24-2011
Mal: You're writing is much more readable than I ever remember it being. It flows smoothly but the aliases you give to your character distract from the overall sequence of things at times. For instance you mention three of your characters titles in the first paragraph. If you use the titles sparsely I can see it benefiting you in the long run.
And the intervention by the chick. That threw me off too. It probably would have been great foreboding if you delivered with better timing and meaning.
There were some punctuation errors that also distracted me (mainly because you punctuate your aliases), but nothing I probably wouldn't have let slip through the cracks myself. Undoubtedly you're improving as a writer though. Celebrate that.
JD: Good read. I like the unique way you choose to present your character and the blend of action and in-character thoughts. Your second post wasn't as strong a follow up to the first as I'd expected. It was a good start, but as the fight gained depth something is lost in translation and I'm already getting ADD sitting here (could be you relying heavily on character personality, but). There seemed to be less description surrounding the action, but I'm carrying much of the merit on the quirkiness of your first post.
Vote goes to John Doe
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Aero - 03-24-2011
Going to be completely objective here. . .
Mal
You are improving. I remember when I was still trying to find myself as a writer and I looked down at you -- with some disrespect, to be honest. Probably because of the spelling and grammar/punctuation issues. However, you are becoming a solid storyteller. You word-usage sets a good tone that compliments your character well. I wouldn't say you blew me away in this Round -- you did ok. You seem to have a little difficulty with dialogue, so I'd like to see you improve in that area. Also, you use a little too many aliases (I counted over a handful). Sometimes it throws the reader off, so I'd--personally--recommend slimming down to maybe 4, 5 max. Make them simple (renegade, Namekian, fiend). Imperfect Namekian, Son of Retane, Jade Fiend, Demon of Namek aren't needed. They just seem a little long. Besides, along with 4 or 5 aliases, you still have your character's name (which, in your case, you can use Mal; Nova; and both together). You had your fair share of writing errors, but I know you don't have MS Word, so it's hard to really edit properly (I have the same problem, so I feel for you).
John Doe
Okay, you're a pretty good technical writer. Both posts seemed relatively sound. However, the first post you could tell was rushed. It lacked consistent flow. Second post was better. It seemed liked to took your time a little more, and it paid off. Sometimes you have to be a little patient as a writer. If you get writer's block, go watch a movie or get something to eat; then come back with a clearer head. Minor errors really. I enjoyed your dialogue, and John seems like a real interesting character.
In the end, I have to go with Mal Nova. It really came down to consistency to me. Both of Mal's posts were relatively solid, while John's first post lacked some flow. It was still a pretty close fight, and entertaining. I'd like to keep seeing you two write and improve.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Orion - 03-25-2011
This was a much, much harder fight to judge than I predicted.
Mal:
Let me start by congratulating your improvement in spelling and grammar. I'm not sure what you're doing, whether it's just a spell checker or what, but it's vastly better than some of the incomprehensible things you once wrote. Well done.
There were occasions where there were funny commas or redundant words, but they were few and far between and didn't really affect much.
Your fights are well written and the descriptions are fluent and easy to follow. I also thought your depiction of John was spot on; it almost seemed like you collaborated with him before each post, or you let him write those segments, because they were very true to the way Doe is written.
I was a little confused where Mal blacked out at the end of one of the posts and a mysterious girl smiled at him, which he interpreted as a message to settle down. Maybe there's some back story there I'm unaware of, but this is a tournament, and not everyone has read all of your work. If you are going to include past events, make sure you flesh them out in an easy to understand but uncomplicated manner.
tl:dr; Astounding improvements since I last read your work. Good stuff.
Doe:
Despite the fact that you won two (three?) awards in the last saga, I'll admit that I haven't read much of your work. Which is why I was pleasantly surprised to see this fight. Your structure flows brilliantly and progresses at a good pace. Even though I haven't read a lot of your stuff, it was obvious from your posts that Doe's country bumpkin persona was a front to conceal his identity, and it was good that I could tell that without having to bury myself in your past work to get context.
Beyond that, Doe is an endearing character. He is a lovable scamp, persistently poking the bear to help his fight while maintaining a facade that is quite funny. Also, a few points for your dialogue. Doe's speech is well written and humorous and a joy to read.
You're one of the few people I have trouble finding fault in. If there was anything there that needs improvement, all of the aforementioned points buffed them away.
tl:dr; Well written, entertaining character design, hard see fault.
This was a really tough choice, but John Doe gets my vote. I hope one of you comes back as a wildcard.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Belle Hibiki - 03-25-2011
Doe:
Well constructed, but hard to get into. You made less obvious mistakes in grammar and spelling than Mal did ( and even he didn't do it much ), but overall it felt very ... mechanical.
Who is John Doe? Why is he here? What does he care about? While his inner thoughts were often funny, I didn't feel like they were used as well as they could've been. Instead of getting into Doe's head, they for the most part they became just another place to put in expletives. Could've done without them, really. I just didn't feel like I connected with the character at all. I couldn't root for him because I don't know his motives. I was disinterested in his fate.
Mal:
You had more constructive problems than Doe. Weird capitalizations abound, and some sentences really need the speed bump of a comma or two. Something that applies to both you and Doe, and is something I seem to be saying a LOT in these C&Cs, is that you could stand to go through your posts with pruning shears. HOWEVER, I do like that most of your actions were not appended with overwrought descriptions. A punch should feel like a PUNCH - not occupy an entire paragraph. So good on that.
I've never really thought of, or read any, of your character at all before, but I was able to glean a lot from just these two posts. Why he's fighting, what that says about his feelings of responsibility, the existence of someone else in his life that he's lost, the suggestion of feelings of guilt... It was well done. I found myself rooting for Mal because he had a clear goal that wasn't the obvious 'gotta win just because.'
Verdict: Mal Nova. His mechanics arent 100%, but the purpose of fiction writing is to connect with the reader to tell a story, and I feel like Mal kicked John's ass in that respect.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - John Doe - 03-25-2011
Quote:Your vote should not take into account any posts outside of the fight, and should not include how much you like a particular character or person.
Not going to argue your vote.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Jonathan Meer - 03-26-2011
Tabulation: 5 votes for Mal, 4 votes for John
Missing Grade Deduction = -1 for Mal
Resulting Tabulation: 4 votes for Mal, 4 votes for John
It's a tie. The fight will be forwarded to the panel of three who will provide their votes.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Jonathan Meer - 03-27-2011
I'm not certain I'll be able to drum up a 3-person panel to vote on this.
So, we're going to do something different. This thread is re-opened for voting. The next vote decides the victor. That vote will still need to be accompanied by C&C indicating that the voter has read the topic.
If this thread has not been resolved in 24 hours, I will determine the victor with a coin flip.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Alexander Trafford - 03-28-2011
No Vote -> Mal Nova
But I am strongly, STRONGLY advocating that John Doe be given a wildcard spot.
[BT1] Mal Nova v John Doe Review - Jonathan Meer - 03-28-2011
Tabulation: 6 votes for Mal, 4 votes for John
Missing Grade Deduction = -1 for Mal
Resulting Tabulation: 5 votes for Mal, 4 votes for John
Mal Nova wins Round 1.