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+--- Thread: The Stigma of TL;DR (/showthread.php?tid=16979)
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The Stigma of TL;DR - Jonathan Meer - 08-06-2011
We Chubbsians seem to, by and large, take a page from 'expositional fantasy' when it comes to our writing styles. There's a lot of backstory, there's a lot of description, there's a lot of fleshing out the things in our imagination.
This leads to fucking long posts. And, it's a scientific fact, fucking long posts are a lot less likely to be read in their entirety than shorter posts.
When paired with the idea that Chubbs should be not only a community of writers, but also readers, we seem to have a conflict.
From your perspective, as either a writer of long posts, or a general Chubbs-reader, how should/can this conflict be resolved?
The Stigma of TL;DR - Rafael - 08-06-2011
I've been doing some reading at work, and yeah, massive posts tend to just have me leaving the thread. One thread, for instance. I read the first one and then the next ones I scrolled and scrolled and...scrolled...and then went and read, I believe, some of the Invasion saga.
As for a solution, I would suggest breaking up posts. Post count doesn't mean anything so I wouldn't see it being a problem if you just found an appropriate part and cut it up some. I dunno what is but at least for me, I'll read a whole thread start to finish at once, but if took the whole thread and made it into one post, not happening, or if it does, I skim, a lot.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Kaden - 08-07-2011
There are a couple of things that the writers themselves can do.
Either insert obvious break points into the post and accent these with some form of notation such as a series of hyphens or astrix or what have you. Better yet is to break the single post into a few smaller posts; that has no impact on your XP or the actual writing and, really, can make for an even better reading experience if done with some forethought.
As readers, we can also just nut up and read some stuff. I 100% have the same problem and I know that it's 100% within my control. What would I be able to do in the ten minutes that it would take me to read a long post? Play a game of Peggle? That is more deserving of my time than a post that was written and crafted by a member of this community? Probably not, but that's how laziness works.
I've definitely been working on writing shorter posts or using that break-point idea where I can. I don't like to read really long posts, so why would I write one and then expect other people to read it? Makes no sense.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Vad - 08-07-2011
Music helps me get into the swing of the scene people are trying to set. I already practice the art of limiting my posting. I haven't exceeded 2k words in a post since maybe my first Dragonball thread. If I didn't there it would have been Retribution in Jan 09.
I also find that there are certain styles that catch me more than others. I don't want to use names, but there are writers on this site where the length of their posts does not matter. I'd read them regardless. I tend to like description and action oriented writing.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Blue - 08-07-2011
What would you consider to be a long post? That's really the point of this discussion. I'm sure there are readers who would prefer 300-450 words per post, whereas others can read a good 2000 words before feeling it is too long. As a roleplaying site that focuses on improving writers, long posts kind of come with the territory. Otherwise, we might as well be going to Gaia Online.
Myself? I don't think it's the length of the post that makes it "too long". Rather, it's the quality of the writing. There's a point where too much detail can ruin the scene, just as there's a point where too little will prevent the reader from envisioning what is going on. And for each person the middle ground is different. Both as a writer and a reader. For example, I could read the entire LoTR saga without wanting to put the book down. Give me a biography and I'll wish it were a summary. Other people may be the other way around.
TL;DR: There's not really any precisely perfect post length. Everyone reads and writes differently. However, if an upper limit were established by the staff, I'm sure that people would be able to adhere to it, and it may make their jobs a lot easier.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Sigfried Hunin - 08-07-2011
I used to worry about this a LOT. It was like, 2k words max and I'd break up longer posts into smaller ones if they were all huge. Then I realized that, for the most part, people don't really read a whole lot unless they're directly involved, and then they have to read it anyways. Also, I usually only write when I'm participating in an event anyways, so there ya go.
I've actually started to TRY to marathon write because I think it makes me a better writer as a whole. It becomes difficult to write a chapter of a book if all you're used to writing is two thousand words. That's not enough!
The Stigma of TL;DR - Rafael - 08-07-2011
You could just write it all at once and edit/break it up later
The Stigma of TL;DR - Kayne - 08-07-2011
I have got the attention span of an ADHD child in a school next to a candy store. Long posts immediately turn me off if they do not catch my attention in the first paragraph. Keep em short and sweet. That's not to say you should skimp on the writing, but maybe break the posts down into bite sized pieces. Sure, this makes for more post count, but it does make it easier to keep track of when you're reading on a busy schedule and want to come back later, but do not feel like going through a big ass wall of text trying to find where you left off.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Piper Juunanagou - 08-07-2011
I tend to write the length that the situation calls for. When I'm by myself, I usually write longer posts, because I don't have to worry about taking too much of the scene/story away from other people. I think one thread I had, I wrote the entire thing and then just threw the entire thing up on Chubbs (yes, I'm aware that three people at most read it, and I don't mind).
When I write with people, I usually limit myself to 1.5k words. If that's too long for someone to read, then you need to medicate yourself. o=
The Stigma of TL;DR - Orion - 08-07-2011
Long posts don't bother me. Long paragraphs do. If you write 2k words and make sure each paragraph has no more than three or four sentences, you'll probably hold my attention. If I see several big blocks of text, though, you won't.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Dehan - 08-07-2011
I usually write for myself. I have never taken anyone else into consideration unless we were rping together. I have a few things I can work on though. A lot of things now that I think about it. But when it comes to writing and it flows, I don't notice length or anything until I'm done.
You ask how can the conflict of long posts be resolved...no clue. XP and CA comes from a lot of writing. You write less, you get less.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Mal Nova - 08-08-2011
To expand or add on to what Kaden and Kayne said, as a writer, you can make the breaks or end a post where it feels right as a writer, and this as well could also give the reader a chance to pause or take a break.
It also can be used as a suspense builder to make the reader want to read on as well.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Tyr - 08-08-2011
Orion Wrote:Long posts don't bother me. Long paragraphs do. If you write 2k words and make sure each paragraph has no more than three or four sentences, you'll probably hold my attention. If I see several big blocks of text, though, you won't.Wont that make the post itself like a bloody mountain though?
The Stigma of TL;DR - Orion - 08-08-2011
I don't know. All I know is that small paragraphs make it easier to stay focused.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Celena - 08-08-2011
Basically what Kayne said. I generally don't like reading large posts.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Super Buu - 08-08-2011
Orion Wrote:Long posts don't bother me. Long paragraphs do. If you write 2k words and make sure each paragraph has no more than three or four sentences, you'll probably hold my attention. If I see several big blocks of text, though, you won't.
This x10. IMO the single worst habit of nonprofessional writers.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Mal Nova - 08-08-2011
How is that so? One of the first things we are taught in writing structure is a regular paragraph is usually 4-6 sentences, right?
The Stigma of TL;DR - Super Buu - 08-08-2011
4-6 isn't too bad. And I don't mind big paragraphs dotted about. But you should break those up with smaller paragraphs. If you're writing an in-depth essay, fair enough, but when I'm reading something that's supposed to be punchy (and this is D B fucking Z) I want the paragraphs separated up. There's no hard rule, it's just a matter of recognising when is a good place to start a new paragraph (I can only describe it as each paragraph representing a 'mini story plot point').
On the main topic though, I really don't think it's that big a deal. If people wanna do short posts, let em, if they wanna do long posts, let em.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Kaden - 08-08-2011
Mal Nova Wrote:How is that so? One of the first things we are taught in writing structure is a regular paragraph is usually 4-6 sentences, right?
A paragraph is as long as it takes to complete a thought. It can be 10 sentences, or it can be one.
When paragraphs are too long, it's usually because someone didn't break it properly and actually jammed two -- or more -- together. That just makes for a jumpy reading experience.
The Stigma of TL;DR - Jarka - 08-09-2011
We've gone over too long and too short, so I will bring up something that not a lot of people consider as they are writing: mixing up paragraph lengths. It is so hard to read any post of length if they adhere strictly to a certain number of sentences per paragraph because the rhythm becomes too predictable. It's like the sound of waves, something you'd fall asleep to.
Varying the sentences, however, keeps the reader on their toes.
It gives a chance for you to visibly highlight the important sentences while also being able to delve into a deep description. In addition, it becomes a lot easier for the reader to keep their place.
Just like Rose mentioned, preview the post and make sure there are variations in your length. The difference in paragraph block size can be caught with a glance when it's done correctly, and it truly packs a punch. For any wordy writer that asks my opinion, that is almost always the first piece of advice I give. Just adjusting the spacing with no other rewrites can take reading a piece from feeling like a chore to being a pleasurable experience.