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Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter Jr - 09-13-2006
I'm debating on the type of units we could have. Preferably each unit has only a couple types of soldiers, but can be combined with other units in joint attacks.
Possible types:
Infantry (martial arts + ki, melee weapons)
Rifle (specializes in weaponry. long-rang unit)
Energy (Strong focus on ki)
The soldier units would be much, much more diverse. Things like Ki Archers, Axeman, Flight Soldier, Martial Artist, First Class Fighter, etc etc.
This is all off the top of my head.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Android-18 - 09-13-2006
Would the members be one of these soldiers, or command a legion of them?
Would they, if they controlled them, get to select various ones with a set end total? Like "You get 100 soldiers, pick which kind and how many of each." Or somesuch?
I'm trying to grasp what you're doing, but it's hard to understand, when you haven't quit gone into great detail as to what the saga will be about.
However, good idea making groups. All great wars had their different sections, archers, and so on.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter Jr - 09-13-2006
Quote:Would the members be one of these soldiers, or command a legion of them?
Up to the character. The players in the units would control the unit from an OOC standpoint. But if they want to just be another soldier in the fray IC, that's fine.
Quote:Would they, if they controlled them, get to select various ones with a set end total? Like "You get 100 soldiers, pick which kind and how many of each." Or somesuch?
Still deciding. I don't want to make things too uneven (which it could be if one army ends up with like, all infantry and no defense against ki), but I also don't want to give someone something they don't want.
Quote:I'm trying to grasp what you're doing, but it's hard to understand, when you haven't quit gone into great detail as to what the saga will be about.
It'll be like DA. It's a competition, except this time it's army based. Syntech will organize it, put everybody who signs up on the battlefield location, and let them go at it. The army that either eliminates all the opposition AND takes all the points on the map wins.
There can be betrayal, mutiny, and even people trying to make their own armies. It's gonna be as open-ended as I can allow without giving too much room for it to be ridiculous.
One of the bigger problems of Single player DA was not putting a limit on alliances. I'll probably put a maximum number on units, but will allow joint attacks and the like
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Raditzu - 09-13-2006
Oh. My. God.
Seriously, I was doing this a few days ago. Here's what I came up with:
Infantry - Close-range, multuple-opponent specialists
Special Ops - Close-range, single opponent specialists
Support - Medium-range, multiple-opponent specialists
Assault - Medium-range, single-opponent specialists
Artillary - Long-range, multiple-opponent specialists
Sniper - Long-range, single-opponent specialists
Strategic - Something big and all-powerful (ie a fusion or spirit bomb)
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter Jr - 09-13-2006
Assuming we go with that, what's stronger then what? For example, Infantry would suck against Sniper because they are close ranged against long ranged. Where-as Special Ops could be equal to or better then Sniper because even though they are close range, they have different techniques like stealth (all complete bullshit off the top of my head, just giving you an example of what I want)
And if possible, small examples of what kind of soldiers would be in the units would be cool. Like what is guns, and what is martial arts, and what is ki? etc, etc
That's a good list for me to base what I'll be doing units on.
EDIT:
Big moves like Spirit Bomb, Power-Ups and Fusions will be like single-player DA. Time-based
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Raditzu - 09-13-2006
Infantry
This would be the group with the martial-arts training. They're trained engage as many opponents at one time as they can to draw fire for their comrades. A kind of close-range support, if you will. While they engage enemies and draw fire, the support and assault troops thin the crowds.
Spec Ops
They find the most dangerous enemies on the battlefield and neutralize them. Snipers and artillery are common targets, but these troops would also be what you would deplot against an opposing character (meaning Rad or Rei or somesuch). Their skills are superior to Infantry in one-on-one combat, but they're easily overwhelmed. While they are trained in martial arts and CQC, Spec Ops also have limited ki-manipulation, giving them the ability to travel the battlefield quickly with skills such as flight and zanzouken.
Support
Like infantry, Support troops engage as many targets at once with high-power rifles designed purely for ROF, and not accuracy. As such, it is easy for a single target to engage a support unit given the inability of a support unti to pick someone off specifically. By the same token, a squad of infantry can be easily mowed down by a well placed support unit.
Assault
A variation on the Spec Op-class units, Assault are designed to engage particularly powerful units with concentrated blasts of energy. They're highly accurate, unlike Support units and effectively combine ki training and modern weaponry. By using their inner energies to focues their mind, they can more clearly process the chaos of a battlefield and cut through it with bursts from powerful rifles.
Artillary
Artillary class units have mastered their ki manipulation. Through rigorous training they can fire massive salvos of ki blasts, or concentrated "bombs" depending on the situation. Because of their purpose, they are heavily armored, but possess little-to-no close quarters training. Though strategically placed artillary can devastate an opposing army, they're defenless with no one to support them.
Snipers
Unlike the other single-opponent units, Snipers have little to offer in the midst of battle. In fact, their lack of manipulation abilities in addition to martial training on par with Artillary means that if caught in the middle of a fight there's little they can do. That's not to say Snipers have no use, however. With light armor, high mobility, and incredibly long-range weaponry, Snipers can take out units before a fight even starts (Artillary and Spec Ops are popular choices) with deadly efficiency. By stacking the odds in your favor with Snipers, the battles become easier for the rest of your troops.
Ok, that doesn't exactly answer what you were asking, but that's how I was thinking of the different troops. There are a few different ways of deciding how to do things, I'm just going to pick numbers to show how I would stack up the troops.
Infantry
Range: 0
Attack: 2
Defense: 3
Spec Ops
Range: 0
Attack: 1 against undesignated targets
Attack: 3 against designated troops or players
Defense: 1
Support
Range: 1
Attack: 2
Defense: 2
Assault
Range: 1
Attack: 1 against undesignated targets
Attack: 3 against designated troops or players
Defense: 1
Artillary
Range: 2
Attack: 1 using a volley
Attack: 2 using a bomb
Defense: 0
Sniper
Range: 2
Attack: 0 against undesignated targets
Attack: 4 against designated targets
Defense: 0
This is based on you using a grid. Range would be how far away opposing troops could be to attack them (0 meaning they need to be in the same square and so on). Attack is the amount of damage a unit does. Defense is the level of attack a troop can sustain before being killed.
I'm just kind of spit-balling here, so feel free to use to ditch whatever you want.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter Jr - 09-13-2006
I haven't actually read it yet, but goddamn, you really got into this.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter Jr - 09-13-2006
Okay, so is what you listed Soldier classes, or Unit classes? Units are a collection of Soldiers. Soldiers are, well, the actual people
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Raditzu - 09-13-2006
Dude, when I said I had been thinking about this a few days ago, I wasn't kidding.
For balance issues, you could assign each troop a "weight" and say that each person can choose troops up to a certain weight. Yeah, its really 40k of me, but here's an example:
Total weight allowed: 20
Infatry cost: 2
Spec Ops cost: 3
You could take seven infantry and two spec ops.
And so on and so forth.
When I said "designated targets" I meant that a player would have to tell you who his Spec Op troops (for example) would be attacking before the battle actually started. If the player failed to do so, or didn't have a chance (ambushed, for example) then the troops would retain their "undesignated" attack values.
For the artillary fire, I had imagined them as actually having two different styles of attacks. The weaker, volley fire would cover a range shaped like a + while the "bomb" would target just a single square. Additionally, artillary would/should have the advantage of being able to fire over walls or obsticles should you choose to impliment them.
Like I said, I'm basing this all on a grid system.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Raditzu - 09-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Burter Jr
Okay, so is what you listed Soldier classes, or Unit classes? Units are a collection of Soldiers. Soldiers are, well, the actual people
Units. I wasn't thinking of it like that when I wrote it, but a single "Infantry" would represent a collection of individual soldiers.
EDIT: Alternately, you could say Infantry, Support, and Artillary are "Units" while Spec Ops, Assault and Snipers are "soldiers."
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter Jr - 09-13-2006
In all seriousness, what you described would work a lot better for Soldier classes.
A unit would be like, say:
Rad's Waffle Unit
Long-Range Based. 100 Soldiers
40 Sniper
40 Artillary
20 Support
Something like that.
As for the grid system, I wasn't gonna do a very specific grid system in battles. Just movement like the original DA I hosted. So one square would cover the whole battlefield.
However, those stats could still work when comparing two different units
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Raditzu - 09-13-2006
That's cool. Like I said, I was just kind of spit-balling.
So how would you assess, damage and loses if you had Rad's Waffle Unit versus:
Waffuru's Rad Unit
Medium-Ranged. 80 Soldiers
20 Assault
30 Infantry
30 Support
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter Jr - 09-13-2006
Waffuru's Rad Unit
Medium-Ranged. 80 Soldiers
20 Assault
30 Infantry
30 Support
Rad's Waffle Unit
Long-Range Based. 100 Soldiers
40 Sniper
40 Artillary
20 Support
Let's assume you guys roleplay about equally, so neither of your characters die.
Off the top of my head, without any roleplays to go off of:
Waff's Infatries gets fucked by your Snipers, but the Snipers are slightly bogged down by the Assaults. The Supports cancel each other out, but he has more so it'd be a little more on his side.
Overall, you would win if it was based off the troops alone (no roleplaying or power levels or techniques)
Probably:
Waffuru left with 10 Assault, 20 Support, 2 Infantry. Rad left with 31 Sniper, 38 Artillary, 8 Support.
There could be less causualties depending on the situation of the battle.
On a similar topic, maybe we should just have 3-4 soldier types available to start and have the more dangerous ones be earned as we go
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Raditzu - 09-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Burter Jr
On a similar topic, maybe we should just have 3-4 soldier types available to start and have the more dangerous ones be earned as we go
That could be really cool. You could have, like, Merc drawn to someone because they're won a bunch of battles. Or someone else could overtake a city and "recruit" more troops from there. Etc. etc.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Reijin - 09-13-2006
I don't have time to read through all of this right now (I really want to, just something happened at work and Erin really wants to use the computer tonight now, so I kinda have to cancel the plans I had been looking forward to
) but I will definately be reading it when I get time. I want to talk to you BJ about some things also that I was thinking about, though its more sidelines than anything.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter Jr - 09-13-2006
For now, the official units are:
(Basic)
Infantry - Basic Short Range
Support - Basic Medium Range
Sniper - Basic Long Range
Assault - Powerful Medium Range
Special Ops - Powerful Short Range
Artillary - Powerful Long Range
Subject to change, but for the sake of building up this idea, those six are what we'll work with.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Krillin - 09-22-2006
Yeah, what Raditzu said. The idea of "cities" (or whatever) as places for recruitment would be downright amazing.
That said, you ought to consider implementing a point system. Each player starts off with only five soldiers, that they hand-pick. As they go throughout the game, they gain points for various things (you could do this on a roleplay-by-roleplay level, or for doing crowd-pleasing things, such as the Popularity idea in DA2006). They can then "spend" the points at the cities we put on the map.
For one, it would penalize those who would prefer to find a desolate corner and hide. Sure, they might stay away from the fray, but they will EVENTUALLY be found. And without having been able to spend points on new soldiers at the cities (where people will inevitably congregate), they will be push-overs. With this system, you'd have to actually make risks to stand a chance.
I think it would be best if we kept the numbers relatively small, though. With maybe 3 or 4 soldiers a piece, tactics become sharper, forcing someone to specialize in a particular area instead of simply spreading out their numbers equally among the six categories. Also, it would enable the competitors to roleplay interactions between themselves and the soldiers, and I think that's downright awesome.
The question has to be raised, though. Will these soldiers be real people, or fictitious entities created by Syntex?
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Raditzu - 09-26-2006
Speed
I was talking to BJ about movement and the like across the grip/map and thought up an idea to address mobility. After I got thinking about it, I had a complaint regarding this in the last DA, but that's neither here nor there.
Personally, I think mobility is a huge strategic factor which could play a massive part in constructing ideas. Now, this could be difficult and complicated, but I think I found a pretty simple way of covering it:
Infantry - 3
Spec Ops - 2
Support - 2
Assault - 1
Sniper - 3
Artillary - 1
Each of those values represents how many squares that type of troop can move per IC day. So an Infantry unit can move up to three squares a day whereas an Artillary unit can only move one square a day.
A unit of troops is only as fast as its slowest unit. So it would look like this:
Rad's Speed Unit
50 Snipers
100 Infantry
Unit Speed = 3
Rad's Main Unit
100 Infantry
100 Spec Ops
20 Snipers
80 Assault
Unit Speed = 2
Rad's Support Unit
100 Artillary
100 Assault
50 Snipers
50 Infantry
Unit Speed = 1
This allows the creation of specialized unti for consequtive hit-and-run attacks. It would allow people to flank an enemy unit or scruture more effectively and, basically, just adds another level of depth to the strategy element of the game. Conversly, someone could ignore speed altogether, make one massive unit, and still do fine.
EDIT: I just picked random numbers for unit speed, so feel free to change 'em.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Drake - 09-27-2006
I like the idea.
Unit/Soldier Brainstorming - Burter - 09-27-2006
[20:44:44] Goku: except for snipers
[20:44:52] Goku: I don't think they would have a good movement speed
[20:44:54] Rebinator: otherwise everyone would have even number of units
[20:44:57] Goku: since they are supposed to have long range
[20:44:58] Rebinator: well, post that for Rad to consider
[20:45:02] Goku: and penetrating power