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Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-13-2006
Ok, I'm going to make a seperate post for each issue I wish to address. I would like the courtesy of not recieving seven more PMs like I did earlier going "WHAT THE FUCK!" and just give me some time.
To be fairly honest, this is not something I'm going to rush. Its apparent that the masses feel that we have lost our minds and the RPG is about to collapse, and I'm saddened by the belief that we only have one decent staff member. I had hoped that in seven years we'd have gotten enough respect to trust in our actions and decisions. It is completely and thoroughly obvious.
Thanks.
I do appreciate a few of you that DID show some understanding or patience. To name a few... Alex/KV, Zac/Mino, Dana/Pan, Gohan... I almost feel as if you guys were the only reason I actually finished reading the thread rather than just losing faith entirely, despite knowing you disagree as well. I greatly appreciate your patience in this matter.
On to actual topics...
I will not be giving all the information behind things. I will give as much as I can, but I do not feel I should divulge all information for various reasons, whether it be things that may happen in the future, issues occuring on the staff board, etc. Learn to live with dissappointment there, because its not something I'm going to go into. Again, I will give as much info as I feel I can, though, and not hold back without having a reason to do so.
Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-13-2006
Staff Reassignment
We (myself and Rad) have been tossing around the idea of modifying the staff tree lately for about the last six months. We have seen some stagnation and there have been a few things that just haven't been handled appropriately.
I have to pont at PCIII as a good example of what I mean by the lack of staff actually doing it. That's what you guys have seen. There's also been quite a few times on the staff board where we post and go "So what does everyone think?" and wait two weeks, get no answer, and go "...ok, I'll just go with this then" only to suddenly see "OMG be patient, those numbers suck, let's completely redo this from step one". Redo it, post again "Ok, what about this?" Nothing again.
A number of us, myself included, have had some issues to deal with lately. Some have taken leave over it. There have also been a few issues that have popped up between some staff members that we've had to try to play diplomat for.
We've had members complain about things moving too slowly. Things not getting done. We see emptiness on the staff board. We even have two seperate staffers of equal rank approach us seperately demanding that the other be demoted simply b/c they don't feel that they work well together. We've had ultimatums given to us, saying that if THIS isn't done, they'll quit.
We've had people threaten to quit of someone else wasn't removed. We've had that from people we'd never expect. We've had complaints from members regarding the person that the other guy wanted removed. We've had complaints from other staff regarding both people in question. We've had fights break out, war on the public boards... We've said "Do not fight on the public boards" and it still happened.
This isn't about one specific staffer "screwing up". Its that regardless of who's fault anything is, we've recognized that there is a problem and we have to deal with that. We knew that if we left things as they were, numerous people would say "I'm quitting". We've only gotten that threat a fair amount more than we wish we had, as it makes doing our job of decision making ridiculous.
I don't like seeing a fight that essentially becomes "You all disagree with me, my opinions are unnecessary, I quit" so that we then have to go "No, please don't quit dude, we greatly respect you and want you here". Or "You suck and you know it" "Please drop it and we'll continue discussing" "No, I'm speaking out, you suck, and I want you to tell me I'm right".
NOW, with that said... I do not want people to go pointing fingers. While this seems to have an "obvious culprit", its actually something that has been an issue amongst several people. Those above situations are simply the first events that popped in my head, and I'm not choosing one person to pick on. We've already moved past those situations and understood that they were mistakes, although that doesn't make our job any easier when dealing with it again.
So we decided that rather than "Let's promote _____ since he's earned it and let's demote ______ since he is a jerk" (as this isn't accurate to our reasoning) we decided to take the route of "If we were completely building staff right now, where would we place people based on what they are best at?"
Now for each person.
We (myself and Rad) have been tossing around the idea of modifying the staff tree lately for about the last six months. We have seen some stagnation and there have been a few things that just haven't been handled appropriately.
I have to pont at PCIII as a good example of what I mean by the lack of staff actually doing it. That's what you guys have seen. There's also been quite a few times on the staff board where we post and go "So what does everyone think?" and wait two weeks, get no answer, and go "...ok, I'll just go with this then" only to suddenly see "OMG be patient, those numbers suck, let's completely redo this from step one". Redo it, post again "Ok, what about this?" Nothing again.
A number of us, myself included, have had some issues to deal with lately. Some have taken leave over it. There have also been a few issues that have popped up between some staff members that we've had to try to play diplomat for.
We've had members complain about things moving too slowly. Things not getting done. We see emptiness on the staff board. We even have two seperate staffers of equal rank approach us seperately demanding that the other be demoted simply b/c they don't feel that they work well together. We've had ultimatums given to us, saying that if THIS isn't done, they'll quit.
We've had people threaten to quit of someone else wasn't removed. We've had that from people we'd never expect. We've had complaints from members regarding the person that the other guy wanted removed. We've had complaints from other staff regarding both people in question. We've had fights break out, war on the public boards... We've said "Do not fight on the public boards" and it still happened.
This isn't about one specific staffer "screwing up". Its that regardless of who's fault anything is, we've recognized that there is a problem and we have to deal with that. We knew that if we left things as they were, numerous people would say "I'm quitting". We've only gotten that threat a fair amount more than we wish we had, as it makes doing our job of decision making ridiculous.
I don't like seeing a fight that essentially becomes "You all disagree with me, my opinions are unnecessary, I quit" so that we then have to go "No, please don't quit dude, we greatly respect you and want you here". Or "You suck and you know it" "Please drop it and we'll continue discussing" "No, I'm speaking out, you suck, and I want you to tell me I'm right".
NOW, with that said... I do not want people to go pointing fingers. While this seems to have an "obvious culprit", its actually something that has been an issue amongst several people. Those above situations are simply the first events that popped in my head, and I'm not choosing one person to pick on. We've already moved past those situations and understood that they were mistakes, although that doesn't make our job any easier when dealing with it again.
So we decided that rather than "Let's promote _____ since he's earned it and let's demote ______ since he is a jerk" (as this isn't accurate to our reasoning) we decided to take the route of "If we were completely building staff right now, where would we place people based on what they are best at?"
Now for each person.
Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-14-2006
I have to start with the biggest issue...
Burter
Burter
Amidst all the cries of appreciation, I feel that they are all falling on deaf ears if there is a single negative comment in the mix. Of all the changes that were made, we found ourselves with Burter as a Mod. Why did that happen?
We were discussing placement of people as far as positions on staff, and came to Burter.
For reference, here's how we are thinking on SM and M. We feel that SM should focus on leading sagas and a lot of creative work while Mods do updates and such. We feel that SMs have to exhibit a certain amount of social skills and professionalism, and we can give more slack to Mods regarding this.
Quote:StafferA: So where should we place Burter? I mean, he's a fantastic story writer, one of the best saga writers that we've seen in some time, which is SM level.
StafferB: Totally agree. However, there was that threat to quit on occassion A.
A: Well, yeah...
B: and occassion B, when things went against him.
A: True...
B: and some staff have voiced concerns
B: and there was the "TELL ME I'M RIGHT" situation
B: the vendetta with HF
B: the vendetta with Uub
B: going over our heads and promoting someone without being given consent
A: Point made
B: He demands people get promoted and people get demoted... But if we demote him, I think he'll quit
A: Most likely
B: I hope not. He's an amazing staffer in everything aside from professional issues and social stuff. I really hope he doesn't quit...
A: I sure hope not. Probably will though, unfortunately. I don't want him to leave staff or be gone, but he just isn't at the level professionally we'd want SM to be at, like Bardock for example.
B: Yeah... Man, this sucks. I agree, and I don't want to make my decision off of "Things will work better with decision A but he'll probably quit in that case" or "I guess we have to leave it at B even though there have been problems".
A: If anything we could put him between SM and Mod
B: There is no spot there, and no reason to make more. I guess Mod, but he would be a special case that he wouldn't be expected to deal with updates so much and instead would focus on story writing like SMs, just would not have the pressure of dealing with rank issues.
A: What if he quits?
B: ...Let's deal with that when/if that happens. I hope it doesn't, but we know it most likely will.
That's essentially a summary of the convo. Note, this isn't exactly copy/paste, but summary. No, A isn't one of us and B the other, its just two voices speaking to each other. We switched roles a few times.
Simply put, we love Burter as staff. He's a fantastic writer. He is very passionate about this site and despite his stance on being a tough ass about it, we know that he really wants to keep things running and see them succeed.
We just can't deny the fact that we've had members complain about certain issues in what they percieve as favoritism, for example. I am HIGHLY dissappointed at how a number of people that previously complained to me about said issues have done a complete 180 and turned on us when we act on it.
As far as professionally, the last couple of months, after the noteable incident over who was right, he's been doing better. We don't feel that he is up to the level of SM on SOCIAL SKILLS yet, however, so we still decided to keep him as a Mod that focuses on essentially the same stuff he usually does, but minus the rank and ability to tell mods what to do. That's the only difference in Burter's placement. We decided that when we felt the time was right, and when he had gotten the stress out of his way and realized it (given that we've tried to work with him before), then we'd return him to SM if we could.
Unfortunately, he decided to quit. Again. I understand the fact that he was pissed and heartbroken, but that response was EXACTLY the form of unproffessionalism that caused the decision.
I do not like how people go "Whoa, you got rid of Burter, he's great, you guys suck, rethink that". We did not get rid of Burter. All we actually did was say "he has a problem interacting with other staff members when he's above them. Ok, so move him down to Mod and he just loses the ability to stonewall them. That also means he doesn't have to focus on that right now and can step away and get some downtime from 'being the leader' until he's back to full". That's it. We didn't say "Kick his ass from staff". We didn't say "No sagas coming out of that guy". We never said "I can't stand Burter, let's fuck him over".
He decided to quit. We didn't want him to. He took it in a way that brought him to his own decision to quit. So don't tell us "You guys just let the staff down by kicking Burter". Burter decided on his own accord to leave.
The funny thing? We still hold to the feeling that he's doing better and can get back up there one day. We still feel that he has a place on staff, and if he'd like to return to staff, we have yet to actually remove him. I don't want him gone. Rad doesn't want him gone. We don't like making our decisions with a firm hand on our balls either, so we have to do what we feel is best for the site. I cannot control what happens as a result when it comes to someone leaving. I don't make my decisions based around "I'll quit if you do that", I make them on "Someone is going to be dissappointed, but I feel its for the best".
On this, it got blown completely out of proportion. We had to get some sleep after this and hadn't had time yet to post the reasons, and some of you decided to stand up and post "our reasonings" for us or demand to know why you've heard nothing in the time that I was asleep.
Bottom line: Burter, we'd love for you to come back if you wish. We recognize all that you do for the site, and we have no problem with that. We feel you will be able to get your SM spot back. We just hope that you can understand why we have come to such a decision, and also understand why we had not yet posted the staff changes other than the three new people outside of the staff board yet.
Addressing a few issues. - Raditzu - 11-14-2006
I just wanted to reinforce Reijin's "quote." That's seriously just about how every conversation about Burter went.
Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-14-2006
Akane
Ok, this one has taken everyone by surprise.
I'll be fairly honest here. We were talking, and here's another mini-convo:
Quote:A: So who should we move up on staff?
B: I have no idea. Let's put _____.
A: Hah, don't bullshit me dude.
B: Just joking, haha. How about _____.
A: You can't be serious.
B: We could do something unprecedented and say Akane.
A: Haha- wait a minute.
B: Wait.
A/B: That's actually not that bad.
Why did we choose Akane? First and foremost, one of the problems we were having was activity. We've seen quite a few people that were active, but had something or another that we didn't like.
With Akane, we have a few things going for us. First off, she's someone new. We think that for the position of STORY GUIDE, this is actually not that bad. We wouldn't choose just any random new person that joins, but from what we've seen Akane display, we actually feel she has potential. She's obviously been on other RPGs before, and isn't exactly a noob. She's intellegent, and can deal with random humor and has gained some respect. She knows how to handle herself without freaking out, and seems to conduct herself well.
Do we know her on any great true level? Nope.
Do we feel she's got great potential? Yep.
Could we be wrong? Of course.
As a Story Guide, if we are wrong, then we really don't lose anything. Its an extra slot. If we are right, woot. I mean, I can't put an exact word on it, but we feel its there. And as Rad stated before, sometimes you go with your gut feeling.
The additional bonus is that while she's in a low staff position which is essentially the "trial staff" spot, she won't be making authority calls, but she will greatly be able to be a proper voice for the "new people" Burter is fantastic at being the "voice for lower tier people" but somehow all those people he voices for have slowly moved to mid-tier now, in the amount of time he and those people have been here. Akane, we feel, can be the next spot down, to help assist people starting off while gaining the ropes here herself.
Its a gut feeling. If we are wrong, we lose nothing. If we are right, we gain.
To prove my point... All of the drama and outright flaming that was directed at her, and obviously the amount of hatred that we seemed to have now doomed her too (I'm so sorry) during her stay here, complete with the newbie prejudice and everything, and yet she is willing to still do her best and try, and didn't just vanish from the site like I very well may have done myself.
The way she was treated was complete and utter bullshit. I can see the anger, but I can't believe she didn't say fuck you guys and leave the site. So that further shows what our gut told us. We believe in her. We could be wrong. Time will tell. If you wish to condemn us for trying something new, I'm sorry.
Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-14-2006
Super Buu
Why was Greg not made staff? Right after he did a fantastic job in Idol, he posted: It was inevitabibidible
That is literally the only thing that made us continue past him. He's a great candidate, one we hope to work with one day. But at this time, (as we've heard he still feels he may quit) we felt we'd need someone else.
Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-14-2006
Bra
Simply put, Bra was moved down completely b/c of things having been said that lead us to believe he was quitting. We simply were looking for someone to replace him with b/c we thought he was leaving. We did the same with Trunks.
Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-14-2006
I did Bra and SB. I'm not sure if there is anyone else I need to explain. I'm going to go attempt a roleplay or something.
Addressing a few issues. - Drake - 11-14-2006
I didn't doubt you had your reasons, but the whole thing was executed in a very poor fashion. Tim, I can't believe you or Raditsu did not see Akane being promoted to Story Guide without someone, at least one person going "WTF" and shouldn't be shocked or upset that people got pissed over it. Seriously, all it would have taken is a three sentance paragraph explaining your reasoning- saying "Trust us" in that situation obviously shouldn't have worked you've been staff for 7 years you should realize that better than anyone.
I doubt any of the members would still be upset over the whole thing if you had just said "We want to make Akane staff because we think she can contribute, and because she is a new character and we believe it can give us insight on the ner member experience so we can make the RPG more entertaining for new people as well as older members."
As for the Burter situation, if you guys have a problem with him you should have confronted him straight off the bat and said "This is what's going on, this is what you need to change, or this is what we are going to have to do." The discussion you had for the last three months between you and Raditsu doesn't count, that's between you guys and didn't involve Burter. He should have been expecting this to happen, PM'ing him one morning and saying "Thanks, but you're being a dick so we are demoting you" is actually quite cold.
I imagine Burter would have tried to straighten out if you guys had confronted him right off the bat, and told him "Look this is what's going to happen if you keep up like this."
Addressing a few issues. - Raditzu - 11-14-2006
Thanks for the input, but all of that has already been said and the horse has long since died.
Addressing a few issues. - Drake - 11-14-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Raditzu
Thanks for the input, but all of that has already been said and the horse has long since died.
But I like beating dead horses, as it makes me feel important and useful. But okay.
Addressing a few issues. - Bardock - 11-14-2006
I'd also like to point out that PCIII wasn't a "dud" because Burter didn't run it. Sure, Burter runs a mean saga, but that doesn't mean others aren't capable of doing so either.
Unfortunately, Trunks was the creator of the saga, and had to step down for personal reasons. It was handed over to Hellfighter, and Hellfighter had to step down for personal reasons. Since the leadership of the saga was shuffled around a bit, no one really knew what to do with it. Things dragged a bit, and people lost interest. So it wasn't a case of the saga being a dud, it was a series of unfortunate timing in running it. Surely people can sympathize, as I know of many who have committed to something, and find themselves withdrawing for one reason or another.
Also, the planning forum for DA:C was accidentally made viewable to all members, through no fault of anyone's. This, in a small part, shifted focus away from the current saga, because people suddenly want to be in the next one, to the point where people, even Burter, had to say, "Hey, there's still a saga going on, you know."
PCIII had very good potential, it just didn't happen to turn out that way.
Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-14-2006
Once again everything we've said has fallen on deaf ears.
Ok.
OK.
Addressing a few issues. - Tobias - 11-14-2006
No, no. Not completely. While I was not as, er, outraged as everyone else, but I was a bit leery of the thinking behind it. Now I can understand what you did.
As for execution, unfortunately even the admins are not yet perfect. We are working to correct this however.
Addressing a few issues. - Reijin - 11-14-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Garlic Jr
No, no. Not completely. While I was not as, er, outraged as everyone else, but I was a bit leery of the thinking behind it. Now I can understand what you did.
As for execution, unfortunately even the admins are not yet perfect. We are working to correct this however.
Hopefully this will be corrected in Admin 2.0, the next installment to our WebWeaver Ad-man series. Developers will be notified.
Thank you for being understanding.
Addressing a few issues. - Kirano - 11-14-2006
We ALL make mistakes. The only thing is learn from them, rise above them and move on.
Addressing a few issues. - Lucifer - 11-14-2006
I'd just like to step in for a moment, now that I've gotten up to speed with the current OOC happenings.
I'm pretty much dumbfounded, to be honest.
Some of your decisions are rational.
One I completely agree with.
Some are ridiculous.
I'm not surprised there was popular revolt.
I won't be making the rather obvious point regarding why the reassignment doesn't really hit the heart of the problem at hand.
=)
Addressing a few issues. - Broli - 11-14-2006
Trust your admins. That's all I have to say. TRUST THEM. You have to understand that Rad and Reijin are only making decisions to better the RPG. Sure, they may have executed a few measures poorly, but were their hearts in the right place? Of course.
Three years ago staff had fallen into a point of being nonexistant. It took months before anything could be done. No joke, one member laughed about it taking nine months for his application to go through. These two admins were the ones to put Chubbs back on its feet. People had to be cut. Heartbreak had to happen. There were people on staff back then who held their position to the teeth. But things had to change in order for the RPG to live, to strive to be the best RPG out there.
I haven't followed exactly what's been happening, and I don't want to. Rad and Rei aren't cackling behinds curtains as they make change after change. They want to see this RPG succeed, no matter what.
Trust them.
Addressing a few issues. - Raditzu - 11-14-2006
The fact of the matter is that there are problems the members don't see. The reassignment was a method of addressing some of them, and obviously it didn't fly. We'll have to find another way to work around it.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Broli.
Addressing a few issues. - Mowgli - 11-14-2006
I haven't been around for too long but I know that the decisions that were made as Broli said, were made to only help CHUBBS grow. So I trust them, and support them 100%. IDK if anyone really cared about what Yamcha had to say but I just wanted to let you guys know how I felt.