[C&C] Sophia

[Jesper]

Jumpin' on C&C train! Woo woo!

Anyway, here Sophia's debut: http://www.cdbzrpg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24975

Next part would be FoF3: http://www.cdbzrpg.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=154

You can read my King Kai training, if you want, though...well, it's a little rough. In any case, I'd like some feedback on my character. Things you like, things you'd change, suggestions for the future, etc.

[Jesper]

I have no idea why I have two links to Serendipity. <.< Well, you know your way to the FoF3 board in any case.

[Kaden]

In addition to ASS being awesome, it had the hidden benefit of forcing me to read your writing. Now... that probably sounds a little... weird, or whatever, but oh well. Anyway, as it turns out, I enjoy your writing quite a bit. Your style is generally fairly light and fluid and you do a great job of weaving the serious with the not-so-serious. Those are good things, I believe.

You definitely have the occasional mistake here and there, but it's only distracting insofar that you don't usually make them. All-in-all, though, you get done what needs to get done in a post without too much dawdling around. Which is awesome.

At first, I found Sophia to be a bit schizophrenic as a character. In retrospect, I don't think that was the character's fault so much as the situation's fault. In Serendipity, for example, you have a character coming off of a major crisis getting caught up in what ends up being a not-quite-so-serious series of events. I mean... they were serious in-and-of themselves, but there was a tonal shift there for sure.

The personal RP you had going on after that, again, shifted Sophia into dealing with a completely different situation what with the physical and political aftermath of her temple's attack.

Go from there over to Friend or Foe and... whew. Once again a shift in... pretty much everything. Again we see Sophia (everyone who was in it, really) throwing into a shit storm of a situation where the writer has to get a handle on their character, and fast.

On King Kai's, I think, we finally get a chance to see Sophia as just Sophia. Not a priestess dealing with her temple-mates being killed, or an orphan struggling in the wake of her father's death, or a contestant in a psychotic snuff show, and I enjoy it greatly.

The point I'm trying, laboriously, to get to is that it all paid off in the end. There are definitely shades of consistency throughout all of the different scenarios that Sophia has been through and I think you have a very solid character at the end of it.

EDIT: It was awesome that someone who's posts I had already read asked for C&C, btw.

[Sage]

Hokay. Here goes:

At first, Sophie bored me. She was just like, some chick going through the motions of life and I was like "why should I care about you, Sophia?" and she didn't give me a reason.

But as you developed and solidified her personality, Sophia became exceptionally identifiable. Perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but I see this woman who believes in a greater good and has dedicated her life to trying to measure up to this noble standard, when her foundation is suddenly pulled out from under her.

Sophia goes from a pious priestess to a girl who's, more or less, completely unsure about everything she's ever known.

Her fall from grace isn't just emotional, either. In what felt like natural progression, your character becomes more violent, more confident. I would hardly say she's become evil but if there was a sliding scale that went from 'Pure' to 'Malevolent', she's starting to slide away from the 'Pure' end of the bar.

What I like most about Sophia is she doesn't do anything that makes me go "what the hell?" or cringe at how out-of-character something she did was. You always maintain a realistic approach to her actions and reactions, even as her perception of the world and her reactions to her changing perceptions shift as you go.

In many ways, your character has followed a similar progression to Kaden's. A slowly darkening view of the world and cautiously darker reactions to it.

To me, it seems she's become lost, and confused. It will be interesting to see where you go with your character after she claws her way out of the afterlife.

As far as criticism... really the only thing I can think of is that you go through the occasional 'dead spot' where Sophia's doing something but it doesn't really seem important. There's nothing driving the action and it seems forced.

For instance, your King Kai quests are a little dry. Not that I blame you. Doing chores for a fat blue guy isn't exactly the most mind-blowing premise to work with. You kind of get shafted a little.

But this problem is inherent in just about everyone's work. I don't even know what you could do to correct it, so this is unfortunately not very useful for you.

[Jesper]

'kay, another question. For those of you who have read my stuff, you know that Sophia no longer has any desire to be a priestess. Now...should she continue living a lie, fall back into a generic "healer" profession, or would it be too abrupt for her to pursue another career? I have an idea for that other career, but it wouldn't hurt to know what you, the reader, think.

[Kaden]

Just up and switching everything completely would feel like too big a change, I think. Sophia strikes me as the type to go back and trying "living a lie" until it became a point of frustration and resentment and she finally just had some big outburst and stormed off.

[Jesper]

I just finished a pretty major chapter in Sophia's story. It's in the KK forum, mostly quests 5-7. I just wanted some feedback for those of you who have read it.

This is definitely a "scratch my back, I scratch yours" kind of deal.

[Kaden]

One of the coolest moments came in the last quest... Ok... there were a bunch of cool moments in that last quest, but bear with me. Sophia's all conflicted and you talk about how her strongest trait is her indomitable spirit. I don't know about anyone else who read it, but there was one of those "ah ha" moments for me where I started thinking about all the other stuff she had been through.

It's not that it wasn't an obvious strength of hers, she's always been strong-spirited, but it's not something I would really have been able to vocalize up to that point. There's a constant about her character and her actions that is definitely telling of that particular strength.

Other than that, it's all good stuff, definitely. The slow progression of her as a fighter is cool read, and having her just abandon that in the face of her frustrations was a smart move; she definitely has a ways to go. You made awesome use of the happenings from Serendipity to kind of crystallize those changes that Sophia's gone through (loss of her faith, hating on everything, etc.).

If I think of anything else, I'll definitely letcha know.

[Victoria]

I know it's not much but I read your last RP and I have to say you're an excellent writer, not that I would know much...but I do read a lot and you have talent. I couldn't find much to point out. You have great emotion in what you write, and it's obvious that you've put a lot into this character. I could only hope to be as good as you.

Seriously, don't stop writing, you can do a lot with what you know.

[Jesper]

If anyone who has read any of my latest stuff (or any of my stuff, really) and has a passing comment, I welcome it. I may or not respond with C&C in kind, so keep that in mind. xD

[Ander]

In a very broad and very generalized spectrum, there are two types of writers on Chubbs. There are the “post-to-post” people who are very good at individualized, self-contained content, but content that ultimately does not tie into one overall arcing story. And then there are the storytellers who can craft, maintain, and follow-through with a constant continuity in that everything serves a purpose and is somehow related. You alternate between both, with varying degrees of success.

I’ll go ahead and comment on your Kaio Ken arc. Being in the afterlife is definitely hard on the mojo, so props to you for actually finishing. Now, while I know that you aren’t very happy with this work, and it’s already been called dry in the above posts (which was stated before you were completed, however), I selected this piece because I consider solo posting to be most telling of a writer’s strengths and weaknesses, when they don’t have collaboration or outside influence to assist in the formation of their storyline. That’s when you have to stand on your own merit. You really stumble at first, but eventually find your own as you grow comfortable with dealing with the unexpected curveball of your FoF3 exit, another reason I selected this arc – you considered FoF3 to be some of your best work with Sophia, so I wanted to dissect the “fallout” of that.

It begins with “The Long and Winding Road,” which I imagine was probably done as something to pass the time. It starts off nice, because it dips into the incredibly character-altering aspect of Sophia challenging her previous religion, despite the fact that you slipped in the “she was already questioning” card to help ease the transition of acceptance. Then it turned fairly filler-esque and stilted, but things piqued when Sophia stopped off at Princess Snake’s house and you started to build something up of intrigue. Unfortunately, before you could really do anything with it, you ended it too quickly with “then the NPC died, the end.” This isn’t alleviated in the least when you try to reference back on this at a later time as “the horrors she witnessed there.” You either got bored with the premise, had writer’s block, or simply decided to be done with it and move on, but it had great potential despite being just a precursor to the actual main event. However, since it is, as I said, just a precursor, the offense is forgivable. Other things of note is the awesome fact that she got a premonition off of mashed potatoes, of all things, and there was a slight continuity error where you described Slade as being “very tall” and then said he was a “midget.”

Moving on to “Make the Kai Laugh,” it’s great to see that the tradition of “you can tune a piano, but you can’t tune a fish” has survived. Also, I’ve never seen somebody try to make the Kai laugh with one word. Since that’s about it, I’ll skip the rest.

I’ll also skip over your first quest, because that’s a limping intro piece that is comprised mostly of describing every other movement, which was a bit on the dry side.

In your second quest, it becomes apparent that you are very fond of using a wake-up as an introduction for your posts, which is effective and/or necessary if you get knocked out or something, but don’t overdo it. Fortunately, this quest picks up where the first quest was left wanting by gaining the reader’s interest, and you make excellent use of the limited NPCs at your disposal in giving Sophia a humorously intense rivalry with Bubbles. The creation of the portals was also a clever way to circumvent the constraints of King Kai’s tiny planet, and also supplemented the humor of the situation (as well as serves as foreshadowing for later quests… dun dun DUN!). To my knowledge, though, Bubbles does have opposable thumbs.

Your third quest continues this creativity, and managed to delve into suspense as well as humor by creating a solid continuity between posts, turning from self-contained quests to an overall arc. The only problem I have here is that there is not a lot in the way of description of the marketplace, leaving me very confused as to what is going on where and how people keeping popping in and out. Everything is too vague. So, as we’ve discussed it before, you need more imagery, and this would have been a great place to do it, especially because of the shift in scenery. To me, while this is the third quest in the series, this is actually the “beginning” of the storyline, because this is when stuff actually starts happening, like with the elderly woman and the thief (dun dun DUN!). Your writing improves drastically when you know where you’re going, versus driving around in circles until you find it by accident. Or you’re very good at faking it. One of the two.

The fourth quest continues the excellent development by throwing in a little action along with the suspense, and your typical witty exchange. The most intriguing bit was the “Abel to my Cain” line, which I appreciate because it serves as a double meaning: on the surface, a clever one-liner that serves as both threat and name-dropper, but beneath that layer it’s a nice reference to your character’s overall theme of religion. That’s the kind of stuff I appreciate and love to see, is themes and symbolism. Another thing I appreciate is development, even in its smallest measurement, for NPCs. Cain (aka Azrael) was certainly enjoyable, and received the treatment that made his inclusion much more riveting than that of, say, Slade, whose presence and subsequent death had no impact whatsoever because he was just body fodder. This quest succeeds where “The Long and Winding Road” fails, where you built it up and then deflated it abruptly, whereas here, you built it up, and continued to throw more stepping stones into the mystery.

Quest number five intersects with Dante’s Abyss, and thus there is the expectation of tonal shift, which doesn’t really happen at first. You almost seamlessly pick up where you left off, despite the fact that Sophia acts largely different around other PCs as opposed to when she is by herself. She still retains some of those traits, such as bowing and being considerate of others, but it seems to be taken to an almost extreme when she’s in the company of PCs. It’s a bit like… she has a public image, and then she has a more relaxed version of herself. It’s not contrived or schizo or anything, just… interesting, because that’s actually how people function. On to the actual quest, though, I find very entertaining the conspiracy theorist approach to King Kai’s methods, which is one of a couple different portrayals of him. You also share Tim’s penchant for dirty humor in unexpected places, although yours is a tad more… subtle, I guess… than his. Not as exaggerated. The tonal shift really comes when Sophia blows the demon’s arm off, which is really not an expected thing for her, and then she finally just pops the demon like a party balloon, yet somehow this incredibly dark and incredibly casual action gets buried by the fact that there isn’t even a cursory thought of it, despite the fact that she refused to kill Cain/Azrael in the same manner and that the demon “forced her hand.” I would have liked to see at least some attention paid to this beyond an explanation to Raxle. And by the way, very subtle of you to give him a name after the encounter, rather than during. Kind of alluded to paving the way for tying this seemingly random occurrence to the very next thread, now didn’t it?

Your penultimate quest treads dangerously back into filler territory, but at the very least stands on the foundation of your previous “portal” excursion into the restaurant when Soph played hide-and-seek with Bubbles and King Kai shooting out the door to Hell. You do make an excellent effort to make up for past transgressions and actually describe the scenery of her surroundings, giving me a vague picture of what is going on, so it seems like you started to hit your stride (also evidenced by the increase in post length). You also manage to do this by incorporating it into action, like when the demon adjusts his black gi, instead of you point blank saying “and the demon wore a black gi.” And again, you rely on the “knocked out, wake up” introduction… twice. Gotta shake it up once in a while. Also, the introduction to Sophia’s dad “switching sides” was handled a little… clumsily in my opinion. The dialogue was a little awkward, not really befitting a huge bomb-drop like that. Good conservational use of Raxle, and you finally paid the proper attention to Sophia’s use of excessive force, albeit though it was due to different motivation than the previous incident.

And now we come down to the nitty-gritty, the conclusion. You start off doing what I would have liked to see a few quests ago, in Sophia questioning the validity of her actions, and indeed the effects they have on her as a person, but it’s a little all-encompassing, so it can apply to any of the prior situations. The introduction of the children was a little jarring, for a couple of obvious reasons that they were in Hell, armed, and could use energy, and yet were perfectly innocent in all other aspects. I fully expected them to be in on the whole portal scheme, actually, like double agents or something. Their back-story, even a cursory version of it, was left untold, leading to a loose end that ultimately seems like they were there for fodder, because if you just wanted to give Soph a dagger, she could have found one, or something. I’m ultimately surprised that you left the fate of her father to one post, because to me, I would need a whole lot more than that, especially due to all of the implications and the serious impact it had on the character. However, despite the length, I’d say it was a very appropriate way to end her ordeal in the afterlife. The last post in your quest definitely packed a punch. I liked the transference of Kaio Ken power, versus it suddenly coming to life on its own, because you managed to continue your string of unique twists on the Kai quests.

I felt like you tended to gloss over some of the potential of this story arc, leaving a lot of loose ends, and the ones that weren’t left flying in the wind were only partially or hastily explained. Despite this, you can definitely tell when you really started to get going, when you really had a vision (or a semblance of one) of what you wanted to do, because everything felt less forced and less bogged down, if you get what I’m saying.

As far as Sophia is as a character, I’ll fully admit I’ve only focused on her in a couple of different capacities, and she always had a different feel to her every time. She changes, even subtly, after every major milestone in her journey. While I don’t feel she ever reacts out-of-character, she has several different dynamics to her personality that make it difficult to completely pinpoint her attributes. Sometimes she’s super polite, sometimes she’s sarcastic, and sometimes she’s a bit of both. Those are just two traits, but you get the picture. The fluidity allows you to tackle different scenarios, I’m sure, but the complexity makes her a little hard to figure out sometimes, and this is possibly because I don’t quite have a full grasp of her yet. Like I said, though, she definitely has depth, and you have a great investment going. She is interesting and quite unpredictable.

Hopefully this is what you were looking for, as reading back over this it seems a little generalized. If you have any questions or feel that I have not accurately covered something, by all means I will attempt to be a little more specific.

Was that gentle enough for you?

[Jesper]

Yeah, you definitely know how to ease it in.

I definitely wasn't expecting you to read my Snake Way stuff. I barely consider that "canon" to my character. xD As for the continuity error, though, I was originally planning on running into Bujin. I just forgot to change it.

I will ask, however, if you had any passing comments on my style. Is there anything about the way I write that's particularly pleasing? Off-putting? I know you practically wrote a dissertation, so feel free to leave your criticism as it is, if you want.

Also, I've come to terms with my Mark Twain-like flaws concerning plot. xD You still gave me some things to think about, though, so I thank you greatly.

[Ander]

Ah, I knew I forgot something.

Your style is actually an amalgamation of different things I've read here, which I believe Sage already touched upon in his review. You interweave seriousness, casualness, humor, high brow rhetoric, and low brow rhetoric together in this weird sort of melting pot. It's not entirely seamless, as an unexpected transition in narrative can be jarring at times, such as when you're trying to convey a particularly emotional scene with high description and suddenly get layman about it. But most of the time, you pull it off well, and the ability to incorporate comedy or lightheartedness to keep the mood elevated when treading around or transitioning from a dark scene is always appreciated. Your word choice is good, and when you get those descriptive action verbs going, your sentences are quite excellent. Your style has the hint of a practiced writer, one who uses formal conventions over self-development, which can probably be attributed to the fact that you are a professional editor.

I basically view your style as "utility," in that I can always expect you to never pigeonhole yourself into one frame of writing. This isn't inherently good or inherently bad, but is entirely dependent upon the situation of your topic and how you use the dynamic nature of it. I imagine a lot of it has to do with how you as a writer are feeling at the time.

Does that help?

[Jesper]

Yes, greatly. Thank you.