Kaioken Modification

[Vad]

Hey,

Just alerting you guys to a slight amendment to the way Kaioken works. The new description is below.

Kaio Ken - 125 XP - A technique that allows the user to temporarily boost all aspects of their body: the five senses (sight, sound, taste, touch, and smell), as well as gain a small increase in muscle mass, resulting in more energy and more power. Capable of two levels, your Combat Ability can be multiplied by either x2 or x5. This is used at a cost of 1 PP for a x2 "burst" and 2 PP for a x5 "burst." It can be used alone or in addition to a regular Power Up. Each “burst” engulfs your body in a crimson aura, and lasts roughly twenty seconds, equating to one action, such as a single punch, kick, or blast. Must complete King Kai Quests to earn.

[Sullivan]

I can punch or kick multiple times in twenty seconds.

[Super Buu]

Yeah I wanted to say before, that bit never made sense to me. Though it's not changed with the update or anything it's as good a time as ever to mention it.

[Jack]

I'm sure it's more of a "hold B to charge" thing.

[Cain]

I'm sure it's more of a "hold B to charge" thing.

There's even a red "power up" aura.

Check out Viewtiful Joe.

[Vad]

Well I'm sure you understand that we need to limit how many times it can be used. It can be used in conjunction with a Tier 1 power-up. The two levels of it came up as a concern to give it tactical purpose. If your character wants to conserve PP, they can use x2 and only push to x5 if they so choose.

It's merely extended the possibilities capable with it.

[Alexander Trafford]

I'm not sure how i feel about the "only for twenty seconds" sentence there. Normal powerups last much longer than that, so basically you're saying that Kaioken can't compete with a normal power-up because it would only last for a fraction of the time - enough for, more or less, one attack. You've changed Kaioken from being a power-up in it of itself to being a power-up for a power-up, or a burst move. You're telling me i have to die and do 10 quests, accumulating much more than the cost for a single tier 1 power up, in order to just get a twenty second burst of x2 or x5? Basically just having one superpowered attack?

You've effectively made Kaioken a best move with a stated stat bonus.

[Vad]

Okay. First of all. It has been like this for a couple months now. Here is the original:

Kaio Ken - 125 XP - A technique that allows the user to temporarily boost all aspects of their body: the five senses (sight, sound, taste, touch, and smell), as well as gain a small increase in muscle mass, resulting in more energy and more power. Your Base Combat Ability will be multiplied by x5. This is used at the cost of 2 PP per “burst,” and can be used alone or in addition to a regular Power Up. Each “burst” engulfs your body in a crimson aura, and lasts roughly twenty seconds, equating to one action, such as a single punch, kick, or blast. Must complete King Kai Quests to earn.

Second. Yeah you've got the gist of it. A super powered attack. When Goku first used it in the show that's how it operated. It wasn't a power up.

[Alexander Trafford]

First of all, i know that's how it has been. I just never expressed my displeasure with it previously, so i'm making up for lost time. Second, i'm just saying that the work is not worth the reward. I don't see how a single attack can cost more than an extended power-up, first of all. Maybe this is because our power-ups are too inexpensive to begin with, but that's a different mess that'll never be fixed. You have to die, get to king kai's, go down snake way (does that still take a set amount of time?), do ten quests, just to then have to purchase a single, super-powered attack that is more expensive than a lasting power-up?

I just don't see it.

[Vad]

Well, I can certainly see your point of view. A power up lasts for an entire fight, while this is a temporary boost. Would you be inclined to accept (just an idea I formed) a 20 second limit, but with a three attack limit?

That would effectively make it the first combo attack.

I'm curious, how would you see it employed?

[Alexander Trafford]

You're missing the point. How can a power-up last an entire fight and only cost 75xp, with Master it would last an entire fight, be x2, and only cost 2pp i believe, and Kaioken costs the same amount of XP as master, uses one less PP but only lasts for a combo attack. And Kaioken is much, much harder to achieve.

x2 charge for length of fight >> x5 charge for twenty seconds, and the former is easier to achieve then the latter. That's what i don't understand. Kaioken is, more or less, only awesome when you already have a power-up, and it's only awesome for like... one big attack which, probably, will have no effect on the outcome of a fight.

[Vad]

I'm not missing the point. I'm merely working with what I have. Power ups last the entire fight, but one costs more than the other to make it harder to spam them. It makes you think twice about activating a basic power up, because you'll drain 4 PP and if you only have 5, you're in trouble if you need that Tier 1 again.

At the moment I can't find the thread where the power up length came up. I'm damn sure it's around here somewhere.

[Belle Hibiki]

you're missing the point. How can a power-up last an entire fight and only cost 75xp, with master it would last an entire fight, be x2, and only cost 2pp i believe, and kaioken costs the same amount of xp as master, uses one less pp but only lasts for a combo attack. And kaioken is much, much harder to achieve

Because it stacks with powerups.

[Rafael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U9bDwpLDSg

[Psyren]

yeah in response to that oriole i could also post a video of goku staying in kaioken for extended attacks. A good idea would be lower level kaioken being able to be used for more than one attack but the higher powered kaioken be used for one attack. Because its understandable that goku at higher levels of kaioken is putting dangerous levels of stress on his body not to mention also using it in combination with super saiyan wich is beyond dangerous.

Watch at part 7.min 26 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV-g_1_uLWA

He uses semi super saiyain but you get the gist of it.Would like mention that i lke they way you alreay have it set.

[Rem-13]

Goku uses it to pull off combos too. I don't think its unreasonable to allow kaioken to last "a few moments, allowing the user to pull off a single supercharged move or a brief combo attack."

As for its cost, I haven't been paying close enough attention to compare it, but in a competition setting (the only place costs should really matter) I think we can trust staff to make it count for whats its worth.

[Rafael]

I wasn't saying it can't last, just showing the one time he stacks it. Pretty much I see this as being a rich man's technique as far as exp is concerned. Once you have tier 3, mastered t1-3, and stacked enough of whatever the 50xp+ tech is boosting your pp to like 20, then die somehow, hope you get King Kai, do your quests and learn Kaioken, so that if anyone's anywhere near your CA(unlikely for a pretty long time to match someone who has over 1000exp spent on boosts, to say nothing of any custom techs, etc.). That way, you can use Kaioken to make the difference between, basically, beating someone and killing them.

[Super Buu]

Goku uses it to pull off combos too. I don't think its unreasonable to allow kaioken to last "a few moments, allowing the user to pull off a single supercharged move or a brief combo attack."

You put into words what I couldn't be assed to argue for.

@Alex: I think the fact that Kaioken stacks with other power-ups makes it worthwhile whatever. I don't think it's envisioned as a power-up replacement (as it was before, being the non-transformer main powerup), but rather a power-up supplement of sorts. I can't speak on behalf of staff/whoever designed it, though.

[Belle Hibiki]

It's a booster. It makes your current form go crazynuts, and obviously isn't meant to be a Power-Up on its own.

[Kaden]

I don't think it's envisioned as a power-up replacement, but rather a power-up supplement of sorts.

That is exactly correct.