League of Legends

[Belle Hibiki]

I don't get the hate.

Other than the guys being WAY too scripted.

And looking away from the camera.

Like really, it should just be audio.

Everyone's freaking out about the mana changes saying that casters are going to be crippled without actually paying attention to wtf they're saying.

The nerf to early game health kind of sucks, though. I don't see how that's going to lead to a better game. Having more health early is what lets you be aggressive and muscle in.

[Kole T. Merr]

A lot of the hate comes from the fact that people spent IP on runes that are going to change. If you had spent your time playing and saving up to buy runes that did something specific, how lame is it that they would suddenly change something you've already purchased?

[John Doe]

Like all the patches they do to the champions?

[Belle Hibiki]

That's unfortunate, but seriously.

Developers should make decisions to better the game first and foremost. If your runes become less valuable as a result, then so be it.

The way people are talking, it sounds like they want a full refund.

[Kami]

NECK BEARD!!!!

C'mon man, shave that shit.

It's cool, even if the patch is stupid, that they took the time to make a youtube video about the patch. I don't see anybody else making videos to put out publicly to explain patch notes.

[Belle Hibiki]

The tl;dr of the video is out

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/52/lolea.jpg

[Waffuru]

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/sho...p?t=482357

[Kaden]

The tl;dr of the video is out

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/52/lolea.jpg

That's fucking hilarious.

[Kaden]

Any thoughts on tank runes? Right now I have the following:

MPen reds
Dodge yellows
MR/lvl blues
HP quints

The only thing I'm really questioning is what to put on reds. Thoughts?

[Belle Hibiki]

Penetration marks, Armor or MR, seem to be pretty standard, even on tanks.

Reasons being, I guess, that there's not a lot else, and part of being a tank is putting out enough damage to make you a threat.

[Kaden]

Reasons being, I guess, that there's not a lot else, and part of being a tank is putting out enough damage to make you a threat.

Yup. That was my thinking. Tanks get their damage through skills, which is almost all magic, so I figured MPen would be best for that.

[Ashe]

The tl;dr of the video is out

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/52/lolea.jpg

You beat me to it. That said, if people are bitching about wanting a refund on runes, they should probably go play a game that doesn't update to balance the game, like something on the console.

From 1990.

[Kaden]

I think it's a legitimate complaint, honestly.

They want the runes to have less of an impact by raising overall mana regen. If people find that they would never have bought the runes had mana regen been where they want it to be, that's legit. Riot has said that they knew that MP5 yellows were easily the strongest of the runes.

I'm not about to start complaining, mind, but I think there's some legitimacy to the "we should get a refund" whine.

And, of course, no one should actually be bitching until the patch is actually out and they actually have any idea, at all, of what they're talking about. I believe Riot when they say that the actual impact on people running MP5 yellows will be minimal.

[Belle Hibiki]

I'm not sure it's even possible for them to give a refund like that.

Moreover, they're under absolutely no obligation to, as per their EULA on League of Legends. Actually, I think pretty much every online game has it as part of their EULA that the game experience can change.

Again, it might suck that some people's runes aren't as powerful as they were before, but the impact on their play is supposed to be close to zero. Riot has said that, over and over again, in their video and in forum posts.

If there are people out there who would have bought something else, I'm sympathetic, but your caster isn't going to suddenly blow.

e: Phreak made some posts on this.

[John Doe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clMEu39Iydc

[Ashe]

A couple of things. This is equivalent to me saying "OMG THEY NERFED MORD AND I WON'T PLAY HIM ANYMORE? REFUND NAO!" They've done this once, and that was due to a character coming out then immediately taking a complete nosedive. Not nearly a year and a half (or however long its been) since they've been out and people HAVE gotten to use them in their current state.

I'm under the impression, from what I've read, that they aren't so much "nerfing mana regen" as they are closing the gap. As in, I believe that those currently using these runes and talents will still have approximately the same amount of mana regen happening, thus feeling like nothing was changed at all. The difference will be that their opponents who didn't take them will now not be quite so far behind on poking power as they would have been. (1mp5 base for two people with someone starting with +4mp5 and the other not starting with a bonus is 1v5mp5, now it will be more like 3mp5 vs 5mp5)

So your runes are effectively nerfed, yes. Is your character weaker after this than they would have been previously? No. Are they weaker contextually in comparison to other options they could have used instead? That is where the question is, though it'll be nice to see some other runes get use and be less of a "Fits this role? Hands down these runes." Still will be that way, as is the nature of the beast, but rotated to something different for a bit, which I view as a good thing for keeping things fresh.

[Kaden]

I'm not sure it's even possible for them to give a refund like that.

Moreover, they're under absolutely no obligation to, as per their EULA on League of Legends. Actually, I think pretty much every online game has it as part of their EULA that the game experience can change.

Again, it might suck that some people's runes aren't as powerful as they were before, but the impact on their play is supposed to be close to zero. Riot has said that, over and over again, in their video and in forum posts.

If there are people out there who would have bought something else, I'm sympathetic, but your caster isn't going to suddenly blow.

e: Phreak made some posts on this.

I never said they would, or even that they should. I just said that I understand why people would ask for it. I can empathize with the arguments in favor of a refund. They can edit accounts on PVP.net directly, so they certainly could make a refund happen, but there's absolutely no way that's worth the resources. I'd rather they spend their time on Magma Chamber than try to keep a few people from being butthurt.

[Kaden]

So your runes are effectively nerfed, yes. Is your character weaker after this than they would have been previously? No. Are they weaker contextually in comparison to other options they could have used instead? That is where the question is, though it'll be nice to see some other runes get use and be less of a "Fits this role? Hands down these runes." Still will be that way, as is the nature of the beast, but rotated to something different for a bit, which I view as a good thing for keeping things fresh.

More than closing the gap, though, what this change does is mitigate in-lane sustainability, and I know that's a big thing with Morello. I agree with Morello's stance on that, too. The risk vs reward for aggressive, active gameplay is not appropriately balanced, in my opinion.

[Jonathan Meer]

A couple of things. This is equivalent to me saying "OMG THEY NERFED MORD AND I WON'T PLAY HIM ANYMORE? REFUND NAO!" They've done this once, and that was due to a character coming out then immediately taking a complete nosedive. Not nearly a year and a half (or however long its been) since they've been out and people HAVE gotten to use them in their current state.

I'm under the impression, from what I've read, that they aren't so much "nerfing mana regen" as they are closing the gap. As in, I believe that those currently using these runes and talents will still have approximately the same amount of mana regen happening, thus feeling like nothing was changed at all. The difference will be that their opponents who didn't take them will now not be quite so far behind on poking power as they would have been. (1mp5 base for two people with someone starting with +4mp5 and the other not starting with a bonus is 1v5mp5, now it will be more like 3mp5 vs 5mp5)

So your runes are effectively nerfed, yes. Is your character weaker after this than they would have been previously? No. Are they weaker contextually in comparison to other options they could have used instead? That is where the question is, though it'll be nice to see some other runes get use and be less of a "Fits this role? Hands down these runes." Still will be that way, as is the nature of the beast, but rotated to something different for a bit, which I view as a good thing for keeping things fresh.

Dude. Listen to yourself.

Runes are nerfed, so YES a character is effectively weaker in that area than otherwise. If you pay for a particular set-up, you should be refunded if that set-up is no longer viable, or no longer recognizable.

Seriously. Defending the mainstream (and the only thing keeping Riot from being fully mainstream is that they are even MORE incompetent) in this particular scenario is an easy and pleasant thing to do, but the situation is quite clear.

Period.

[Ashe]

Dude. Listen to yourself.

Runes are nerfed, so YES a character is effectively weaker in that area than otherwise. If you pay for a particular set-up, you should be refunded if that set-up is no longer viable, or no longer recognizable.

Seriously. Defending the mainstream (and the only thing keeping Riot from being fully mainstream is that they are even MORE incompetent) in this particular scenario is an easy and pleasant thing to do, but the situation is quite clear.

Period.

Oh wow, I see it now. If I had 5mp5 before, and I have 5mp5 afterwards, I absolutely am weaker. I'm obviously just defending the mainstream as usual and not rebelling and doing the cool thing against an obviously incompetent company, like most of the others out there, that just herp derp their way to successful products without a clue what they are doing. I should clearly just go with posters on forums who know that the answer to everything is so simple and these companies are morons that just have downs.

-_- Let's not even waste our time with the "zomg fanboi" vs "zomg everythingsux" crap.

I stated that contextually, yes, you aren't as far ahead of your opponent as you were previously, so in that perspective it is absolutely a nerf, as the percentage of advantage you had has been reduced. In the perspective of "what I am capable of now" vs "what my capabilities will become", however, it isn't. You can still cast the same number of spells afterwards that you have before and poke just as much. You just can't take advantage of your opponents inability to respond due to being oom quite as often as you were.

Going to what Kaden said, yeah, I absolutely agree. Its actually buffing the poking early game and making it stronger, while also buffing burst. Some characters are shit as far as abilities go early game because they use them twice and are oom, and since they tend to be melee oriented, they are just fucked and have very little base mana regen. This, in conjunction with the the health reduction, will absolutely reward harassing more often during laning as well as further strengthen zoning your opponents (especially when bringing in the xp/gold distance from creeps nerf that happened) out of their waves. Being aggressive will absolutely be the way to go, but it also puts a lot more focus on playing truly defensive and less of this hybrid passive role of just coming in, farming, then stepping out of range after a hit or two.

Reduced health and increased mana regen (while reducing mana regen runes) will probably lead to more offensive rune setups, leaving players hitting harder and more often than they were before. Consequently, fragile characters may consider defense tree more to get through early game rather than defaulting to 9/0/21 with health quints every game. I also expect (sadly) games to go into roaming/ganking mode much earlier on average and farming to reduce greatly, which has already become a bit of a trend, but also appears preferable to many of the players who prefer hyper aggressive fast paced adrenaline rush action over super laid back casual relaxed mode.