The RIOT Act

[Anzekay]

There's only one team that I've run into lately that can compete with our inability to team comp. This team picked Gangplank first, WW, and a bunch of other guys (my LoLReplay apparently didn't save this match). Essentially a team of mostly junglers. They decided that Rammus had to solo top lane against me on Udyr while WW (Magewick) and Gangplank (gp10 support plank?) would take bottom, leaving someone I don't remember mid. Jungle was Nocturne. Yeah, that failed miserably.

I don't remember which game that was, but I remember we smashed them and got a 20 min game.

[Jonathan Meer]

We are so bad at team comp. It's just about every other game that we end up with an all-melee, or duo-support, or no-ap, or what-have-you team. It's really annoying.

[Anzekay]

We usually have Okay team comp when I play with full Chubbs teams. Isn't always a brilliant team but we do have all the roles covered.

[Jarka]

Thing is, we are no longer at the stage where "have all the roles covered" can be passable for every game. We really have to look at how roles synergize with one another as well as what our comp means compared to the other team.

This is only when we're being for srs, of course.

[Anzekay]

I'm always going to be of the opinion that as long as we have a team comp that isn't pants on head retarded, it's going to more important to focus on things like map awareness, smart decision making, proper communication and other teamwork based things (and warding!) before we should really stress about fine tuning team comps.

And we're not at that point yet imho.

EDIT: That's not to say it's a bad thing to do, but I just think there is larger things to look at and focus on that perfect team comps.

[John Doe]

I'll just play a quick ranked game before packing up my shit and moving back home. I just want to have a little fun before the move, no harm in that.

What the FUCK was I thinking!?

[Jonathan Meer]

I'm always going to be of the opinion that as long as we have a team comp that isn't pants on head retarded, it's going to more important to focus on things like map awareness, smart decision making, proper communication and other teamwork based things (and warding!) before we should really stress about fine tuning team comps.

And we're not at that point yet imho.

EDIT: That's not to say it's a bad thing to do, but I just think there is larger things to look at and focus on that perfect team comps.

Too often, we do end up with a team comp that IS pants on head retarded.

Obviously all of those things you listed are important in a game. You make it sound like there's a limited amount of focus we can put on things, and putting it on team comp takes away from other important things. Why not focus both on team comp AND the fundamentals you listed?

[Kaden]

Not enough people are versatile enough yet. That's how we end up with stupid team comps.

[Anzekay]

Too often, we do end up with a team comp that IS pants on head retarded.

Obviously all of those things you listed are important in a game. You make it sound like there's a limited amount of focus we can put on things, and putting it on team comp takes away from other important things. Why not focus both on team comp AND the fundamentals you listed?

People will probably find it eaiser to work on the fundamentals with champs they are most comfortable with, rather than playing champs they aren't as confident with just for the sake of team comp.

Also, a lot of the stronger team comps are strong because people have great teamwork and fundementals. Some of them may well be just the same as any other team comp if we don't have the fundementals to back it up.

EDIT: And honestly, I haven't seen us have many totally retarded team comps recently. Maybe I'm just playing at different times?

[Piper Juunanagou]

Five support champs or GTFO

edit: We need a team that's just Amumu, Wukong, Katarina, Graves, and Sona. Death to all who oppose the Horde.

[Kaden]

People will probably find it eaiser to work on the fundamentals with champs they are most comfortable with, rather than playing champs they aren't as confident with just for the sake of team comp.

Also, a lot of the stronger team comps are strong because people have great teamwork and fundementals. Some of them may well be just the same as any other team comp if we don't have the fundementals to back it up.

The mechanics are there.

What needs to be practiced more than anything is awareness. That can be done while expanded a given person's repertoire of champions.

EDIT: And honestly, I haven't seen us have many totally retarded team comps recently. Maybe I'm just playing at different times?

It's probably the different times thing.

It's one thing to have an awkward comp in blind pick, I kinda get that. In draft, though -- which we've been mostly playing -- there's really no excuse for it. There's just too much time inbetween picks for someone to grab Janna while we also have Sona. Just, y'know, as an example.

One of the things Tryg and I have been frustrated about is that we often feel like there isn't someone suitable for taking a role for us if we want to do something other than ranged or jungle. We were talking about ways to work around that, but it really just comes down to people not having a wide enough variety of champions under their belt. For example, I have a pretty strong Morde that could totally catch people off guard, but what configuration of people would allow me to play that without really sacrificing a role, so to speak?

Yeah, Anz is definitely right in saying that fundamentals are important, but, for the purposes of looking at 5s play, it's not what people should really be focusing on. More versatility lets us just do more things. It opens up options for counter comps and for wacky comps and all kinds of stuff. That's what we should be doing.

[Jonathan Meer]

People will probably find it eaiser to work on the fundamentals with champs they are most comfortable with, rather than playing champs they aren't as confident with just for the sake of team comp.

Also, a lot of the stronger team comps are strong because people have great teamwork and fundementals. Some of them may well be just the same as any other team comp if we don't have the fundementals to back it up.

EDIT: And honestly, I haven't seen us have many totally retarded team comps recently. Maybe I'm just playing at different times?

'Duo-support + tank' or 'all melee' don't happen because people aren't versatile. They happen because people aren't paying any attention on screen, decide even before bans who they want to play, and lock in without a second thought.

Again, you're running into this bizarre notion that we can either have a good team comp or we can have fundamentals, but we can't have both. I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have good fundamentals.

[Anzekay]

'Duo-support + tank' or 'all melee' don't happen because people aren't versatile. They happen because people aren't paying any attention on screen, decide even before bans who they want to play, and lock in without a second thought.

Again, you're running into this bizarre notion that we can either have a good team comp or we can have fundamentals, but we can't have both. I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have good fundamentals.

I am absolutely not saying we can't have both, I'm just saying that worrying about team comp when there is more important things for some people to focus on isn't always going to be the best option for everyone. Especially when, as Kaden has said, not everyone is confident with a wide range of champions.

EDIT: Oh and Kaden I do include awareness in fundementals. It's a fundamental thing in playing any sort of game competitively.

[Jonathan Meer]

I am absolutely not saying we can't have both, I'm just saying that worrying about team comp when there is more important things for some people to focus on isn't always going to be the best option for everyone.

Translation: I'm not saying we can't focus on both team comp and fundamentals. I'm saying that focusing on team comp probably isn't the best option for some people who should probably focus instead on fundamentals.

EDIT: To clarify, there is still an implicit 'either/or' in your phrasing, when there should instead be a 'both/and'.

[Anzekay]

Whatever, Meer, if you want to argue semantics then this isn't the thread for it.

[Jonathan Meer]

Except that, by way of 'semantics' (which is to say, the meaning and connections of the words you use; hardly an irrelevant facet), your argument involves a contradiction.

If you think it's perfectly reasonable to focus on both team comp and fundamentals, then what exactly are you arguing about in the first place?

[Anzekay]

Okay, I'll bite.

You know what Meer? You want to be a smug self-rightous prick, you bother someone else with it. I'm really getting over your need to just argue and argue about any damn thing that pleases you, and then just claim you were trolling later.

This is completely unproductive, and all you're doing is just making me roll my eyes at your persistance. Enough is enough, end of discussion, talk about things that are actually worthwhile.

And that's the last I'm saying on it.

[Jonathan Meer]

tl;dr: Unnecessarily shitty team comps bug the hell out of Weemus, and it is indeed possible both to correct those team comps and to focus on the fundamentals.

EDIT: And for all the argument, pretty sure we can all agree on that

[Mal Nova]

I hate a motherfucker that says, "Report so-so". Especially for no real reason.

I was in a game with Nasus. Our jungle(err supposed jungle?) was Noc. We had an Orianna mid ... Jax and GP bot... I laned against Nidalee and Leona.

I wasn't doing bad. Got low a few times... but HEY! I'm Nasus. I was actually doing pretty decent considering the fact they are good harassers. I hadn't died or anything.... was even saving Mana for when Noc would come to gank.

...WAIT FOR IT!

"EXECUTED!"

O_O Noc dies in the jungle... to.... IDK!

Says something about runes and masteries and he comes to my lane....

Starts pinging me to go back. It gets on my nerves. I have over a quarter health and have been able to handle these two on my own with no real trouble. I've even had Leona and Nidalee Low health where they were gankable at least 3 times... but never saw a Noc up there...

Well Jax dies a few moments later and I'm moving close enough so that I still kite XP from minion kills... I think 2 people die in Rapid succession after Jax and that jackass, Noc, must have been pinging his ass off cuz I like froze for a second. It catches up... dead from Nidalee.

He wants me reported. I say I lagged... And either GP or Jax speaks up to him dying to a monster and he wanted ME reported!?!?

I come back to lane and get left alone... still do fine.... Noc is roaming .. he went to mid lane and Made Orrianna go back though she prolly didint NEED to... but that pinging was getting annoying. Then i guess he roamed mid and bot lanes...

I died a second time... recalling... because I guess I didnt realize the CD on Nids spear and was in the midst of recalling when i got hit with one.

I proceeded to go... 2/7/3 but I think it was all screwed up and Noc prolly even hurt their lanes goign into them like he did and we actually lost all our lanes.

I think I died making a wrong call (we know this happens) and he starts screaming to report me again.

Funny thing is... he mirrored my ending K/D/A...

But still that shit annoys me

[Jonathan Meer]

Went pugging with Josh and Mal.

I'm Plank.

Pug1 (Amumu, 4th pick): k, going solo top
Me (Plank, 2nd pick): lolwut? No. You'd be laning against either vayne or caitlyn. You'll get slaughtered.
Pug1: wtf whatever, you'd better not feed

(20 minutes later, we surrender, because Pug1 has thoroughly fed bot lane, which leads to the rapid death of his bot-lane partner, Pug2)

Dis elo.