The Like/Hate Thread

[Kayne]

I think the counter-argument is equally valid. If it's a game, with stats and progression, why is it fair for someone who posts once a month to be at the same level as someone who posts three times a week?

It's a fair point, I suppose. I would like to move away from this sort of competition and useless numbers altogether if I could, but, it might work with a numerical value indicating power if we can find a way to actually make it have some tangible purpose within the game. I never really liked the idea of just having it for show, especially when a majority of the updates that were being done by staff members dealt with adjusting these numbers that really didn't mean a whole lot besides inflating over time. The percentage stats that we have now are fine, however, although I think it would better work being represented as a bar than as a number (although the number would still be there and relevant to how big the bar is; it's part aesthetics, but I can understand the importance of it being there to show, for example, that a character is pretty fast, or that they're rather nimble, for instance. Same thing, different packaging.)

My main beef, I suppose, is with the Combat ability level. If it is kept (and this is all dependent on if I can get it to work with the updated forum software, which I would for sure keep regardless because it works with my vision of the next iteration of this place should be, simple and attractive), I think it could use some revision, or reinterpreted some other way, such as using it with the 'level' system I was talking about in a previous post. So much CA = level. If I can get that to work, then I wouldn't at all mind keeping it. It would serve a purpose (to serve as a requirement to unlock certain techniques and such, and also open up more difficult quests and rewards). In this sense, I do not think it penalizes too much either the person who posts a few times a month, or a few times a week. It will slow the person who posts less down a little bit from attaining techniques, but it also gives them something to reach for other than some bloating number. XP is sort of serving that purpose, being used as currency to purchase techniques and stuff, but I feel that it could certainly be improved upon.

You can not create a completely balanced system with something like this, that combines elements of talent with simple stats. Your choices then become how to reward what and what should be kept in/left out.

I do not feel that what we have now is completely balanced, at least, not as it is currently being interpreted. Without periodic evaluation, which is something that appears has not really been happening for quite a while, it is bound to surface some flaws.

The entire system can be tweaked over time as problems or better ideas come up. If people would rather we kept what we have, that's fine, but I would really like to go over it again and just improve upon what is there already, and possibly put a new face on some of it.

As far as what to reward and such, I think in most cases, perhaps a static or staggered prize should be offered. Depending on the effort put in, the reward can range from a range of of 3-10XP (lowest, highest), some zeni/credits and/or an item of some sort (perhaps, if it is alright with Greg, we can expand on an augment system...but as with the rest of what I am trying to get at, make it not klunky so that newbies and vets alike are able to understand it with minimal problem.)

I've always felt like the stat-based, competitive part of the RPG made things more engaging and interesting to the writers. Even with the stats, the RPG has never been about PvP. Yeah, there have been times where someone could've walked around and just one-shot every other member, but that's never happened. Ever.

It very well could have, though; but you are right, no one has successfully done it, although I wouldn't doubt there have been some who were tempted. The great thing about the majority of the players both past and present is that we know the limits and exercise common sense and fairness with one another, for the most part.

If we do keep a stat system, I would like to see it have serve some other purpose other than just being a burden for updaters and not really having any actual meaning within the writing, except on the rare occasion such as sagas or competitions and spars.

I feel that competition shouldn't be about who has the highest combat ability. In WoW, as with other MMO's, some people just do not really care about being max level, or having the really tweaked out gear. Some people thing the exploration and collection of items and other non-combatitive things are what makes the game enjoyable for them. Going around and training with all of the NPCs on a planet could be an achievement for them.

No system is perfect, and I am not claiming my ideas are guaranteed to succeed, but doing SOMETHING to spice things up and improve what we have is better than sitting back doing nothing. If things keep up the way they are, there won't even be a Chubbs for us to come on to every day, like we have been for years.

Personally, I think the people who accumulated the most "power" in the game are the people that were willing to prioritize playing it over doing something else. People talk about only wanting to make quality posts and that's why they don't write as much, but that falls flat to me. Look at the people who have been at the top. They've always been people who write quality posts and want to put more time into this than something else. Maybe other people don't have as much time, maybe other people want to do other things, there are a lot of reasons for it to seem unfair. It is unfair. It's also unfair to diminish those efforts by saying their posts weren't that great and they only cared about word count.

Fair enough, but I think it would be foolish to assume that everybody who has been 'at the top' of the rankings have always busted out quality posts. Some days we're feeling it, some days we're not. However, I think there have been a few people over the years who just bust out mediocre (at best) posts just to get higher in the ranks. And therein lies the problem: ranks. I think it is misleading and disheartening to those who do value writing and posting 'quality' posts end up being lower ranked, while some who just churn them out at a blazing pace just to get higher end up being assumed by others (probably mostly newbies) that they are somehow better than others. This is just my theory, not to be taken as necessarily fact. If I had to make a choice about whether to keep this particular statistic, then it would be gone pretty much immediately, at least in its current form. Reimagining it as a contributor to what comprises a 'level' to unlocking new quests and the like is more what I think it should represent, rather than a measure of how 'superior' or 'strong' they are.

With one exception, I genuinely don't think there's been anyone here who has made posts just so they've put down more words than someone else.

I refuse to name them, again, out of common respect and not to stir drama if they even still come around, but I do believe that those few people are gone from here. It doesn't matter now anyways. The fact of the matter is, I think it has happened in the past, and I think going forward, could continue to be abused if it is not addressed.

This got kind of tangential. Sorry for that.

No worries. I like discussing this as we are now. I do not feel you are being defensive, and I hope I am not coming off as that way, either. The ideas I have are not set in stone, and I have no real intentions of coming in here and gutting everything completely and putting in just what I want. Input from everyone, staff or player/lurker included, is important to getting ideas coming together for what could possibly work to keep this place from completely keeling over. That is the most important thing for me. As much as I say otherwise at times, this place has been my home for the past six or seven years now, and I really cannot imagine being without it.

My point was eventually going to be that, when looking at the intended path of development for players in a game, consistency is very important. Decide what you want to reward, stick to that, and keep an eye on the player's progress. Here, for example, the XP rate-of-gain was adjusted after a couple months to fit more appropriately with how we wanted characters to progress.

And that was a good idea. I really hope we can keep that particular feature going, but as I've stated throughout this post, I think what we have can use some further refinement, and perhaps find a new usage or new interface for what we have already, so that we can work towards the goal of making the entire system have meaningful attributes rather than just be something for shiggles.