The epic Freiza vs Goku debate

[Pink Underoo]

Originally posted by Super Buu

Originally posted by Spice
That doesn't make much sense Tom. Kaio-Ken multiplies Power Level by the Tier, so x20 would multiply his Power Level by, literally, x20, not x2. However, we've already gone through this quarrel countless times, your Manga stats vs my Anime stats, grrr =P.

Anime Power Levels
Goku: 300,000
Goku[Kaio-Ken x10]: 3,000,000
Goku[Kaio-Ken x20]: 6,000,000
Goku[Super Saiyan]: 15,000,000

Frieza: 530,000
Frieza[Form 2]: 1,000,000
Frieza[Form 3]: 2,500,000
Frieza[Form 4 25%]: 4,000,000
Frieza[Form 4 50%]: 6,000,000
Frieza[Form 4 70%]: 8,400,000
Frieza[Form 4 100%]: 12,000,000


Yes, I believe your sox have just been rawked.

EDIT: Oops, I didn't fully analyze your stats; they actually match mine with a few differences, lol.

People seem generally to think this, but it was never stated in the anime or manga that Kaioken actually does that. I mean, think about it. If Kaioken x2 doubles his power level, what the hell does just regular Kaioken do? I think it just multiplies the bonus he gets, rather than his actual power level, and thus I don't believe the theoretical power levels people give in regards to Kaioken.

Oh, and I agree with Kollifum/Krakanot etc. Frieza would have kicked Goku's ass had he not gone SSJ. He survived a spirit bomb ffs! Goku was going all-out through the whole battle, using Kaioken constantly, and Frieza wasn't even trying. Even Kai said that Goku was losing.

There is no such thing as "double Kaioken," that's just anime trash. Back during the battle against Vegeta base Goku was 8,000, Kaioken Goku was 16,000 (still less than Vegeta's base 18,000), triple Kaiouken Goku was 24,000 (equal to Vegeta's Gallick Gun), and Kaiouken x4 Goku was 32,000.

As for Kaioken x10 and x20, don't forget Goku's training in the spaceship. He was practically killing himself every day, and the only reason he increased so fast was because he ate the biggest bag of senzu beans ever seen.

Originally posted by Kakarot
Goku's power level on arriving on namek was 90,000. When Ginyu records his power level Goku used Kaioken. As for any power level beyond that, they aren't official(Except for Furiza's claim that his 2nd form's power level was more than 1,000,000) as Akira Toriyama did not write them while there are ones listed in the Daizenshyuu's, they aren't considered Cannon as they weren't written by Akira Toriyama but rather the group he worked for as well as some of his assistants.

Also, Furiza never announced fighting at anything other than 50% of his full power and then going to 100%. 50% Furiza was able to overcome KKx20 Goku which leads people to believe that the SSJ power up increased Goku's power level by at least 40 times.

Edit: Also, no. Goku couldn't beat Final Form Furiza with Kaioken. Through out the entire fight he was struggling against Furiza and even though he struck out as hard as he could with the Kamehameha, Furiza stopped it with one hand and only got burned.

To say that SSJ give's x40 is disingenuous. The only reason he could even reach that level was because of the benifits of Kaiouken. So, it's more like SSJ increased his power by x2.5 in addition to Kaiouken x20. Didn't we have this talk before? :O