The epic Freiza vs Goku debate

[Pink Underoo]

Originally posted by Kakarot

It was a plot device to do just that, but it was replaced by Super Saiyajin later on since it had obvious limitations- one being it killed him when used at max power.

I'm not saying that Kaioken is better than SSJ, but Goku would never have had the power to become SSJ if he didn't use Kaioken to ascend to the such an ungodly level that Toriyama stopped giving character power levels. I'm only following the theme set by Toriyama: that without hard work (which is embodied by sheer training early in the manga, and Kaioken becomes a part of that) Goku is just a low-class fighter compared to everyone else.

Kaioken x20 was his limit, but it wasn't anything like KKx4. The Kaioken x20 was closer to when Goku used a 3 times Kaioken, as his reaction and statements are the same however as we also see- his body didn't have the same reaction. When using it against Furiza he was drained but his body didn't start to fall apart like it did in the Saiyajin saga which implied he could have gone further- but he didn't.

Why? Because going past x20 was likely impossible it was the complete mastery of the technique.

I compared KKx20 to KKx4 because all of the plot-relevence is identical. If you want to get semantical, then I contest that Goku's use of Kaioken x20 wasn't as horrible as Kaioken x4 because he was just better at using it. But just like Kaioken x4, even though that's his limit at that time it doesn't mean that's his limit forever.

The negative effects of Kaioken, which Goku learned largely because he was Saiyan and could adapt to them, could simply be negated by the ultimate power of the Saiyan's golden transformation, among other things (like how after the Genki Dama Goku was so tired he couldn't stand up, but transforming into SSJ restored his stamina completely). But I didn't want to go there because this sort of discussion breaks down to fandom which leads to insanity. ~_~

It was was a plot device, which was later replaced by SSJ which is why no one was taught it- as it was ineffective and damaging to your body. Also, Goku isn't a genius of hardwork- this isn't Naruto, he was considered a genius fighter with unlimited potential and exhibited as such with his ability to rapidly adapt and grow in strength throughout the entire manga.

You're so wrong it hurts ;_; even in Naruto, Naruto has a degree of abnormal power in the form of the Kyuubi but he's still considered as one of the characters that implements "hard work."

Goku's potential is likewise just the part of his character that makes his hard work so effective. In the very first chapter we see Goku breaking logs apart, catching giant man-eating fish, and throwing a car over with his bare hands. Of course it can partially be attributed to latent potential, but it shows that his daily chores in life are a super training regimen.

This is expounding on when Roshi tutors him for the 21st tournament and he grows stronger by delivering milk while wearing a heavy turtle shell and digging dirt fields barehanded, when he goes searching for the Dragonballs as training for the 22nd tournament and he becomes even stronger, fighting Piccolo Daioumon and more training before the 23rd tournament and he becomes stronger than Kami, when he finally dies and goes to Kaiosama's and gets supernatural training in Kaioken, training at x100 gravity and quickly improving the "God Power" with SSJ, etc, etc and so forth. HARD WORK, MUTHAFUKA