RAGE Thread

[John Doe]

While I might have lost the last game due to a mistake, I always play at my fullest. I always try to win. Fuck you guys.

And fuck Jax. So we're playing, right? We're being pushed, right? We kill 3 of 'em, right? One of their players DC's, right? So the logical thing to do would be to push down mid and just win, right? Right?

Right?

Nope.

Our minions in bot lane are fighting theirs in the middle of the lane. So near the bushes, right? We lost the outer turret, right? Our inner tower is full health, right? Not even in the slightest bit in danger at all, right?

"Jax, go mid, we're going to push and win"
"Bot's in danger"
"No it's not, get to mid so we can win"
"TEAM IS MAKING BAD DECISIONS, WE'RE DOWN RIGHT NOW I'M DEFENDING"
"We just killed three, and one of their guys just DC'd, we're going to push and win, get to mid"
"NOOOO, I'M DEFENDING"
*this continues for 2 minutes*
*The other team is able to defend their tower and we lose*
"TEAM MADE BAD DECISIONS WE LOST"

Seriously?

Seriously?

Are you fucking kidding me? I just lost a 4v5 in a ranked game. 100% because of Jax.

[Waffuru]

I don't like Jax.

[Jonathan Meer]

I don't think I've ever played with a cool Jax.

[Sigfried Hunin]

All Jax are A: Stupid B: Dickheads.

Moral: I need to play Jax.

[Vad]

I understand that I need to learn new champions. I appreciate that you feel the need to tell me all the time. I appreciate having Le Blanc's faults explained to me (I really do). I like knowing she has weakness late game. That doesn't make me like her any less. I'm sorry I picked Le Blanc that game making us have two assassins. but please...

After we're locked in and loading please don't continue to rail on me for choosing her and playing her all the time. Don't continue to tell me she sucks even when I'm moving into my lane. Don't even bitch about Le Blanc 10 minutes into the game about her getting destroyed quickly in team fights. I'm sorry, but it's really demoralizing and distracting and I felt that against Kennen.

Please stop. I'm making an effort to learn other champions. I'm going to buy Brand, Vayne, and play more Nasus. In that order...


D:

[Jonathan Meer]

I wasn't saying any of that shit at you personally. At all. Not at all not at all. I certainly didn't intend to 'rail' against you.

EDIT: Not to speak for Tim, but nothing he said was meant personally either.

[Ashe]

I understand that I need to learn new champions. I appreciate that you feel the need to tell me all the time. I appreciate having Le Blanc's faults explained to me (I really do). I like knowing she has weakness late game. That doesn't make me like her any less. I'm sorry I picked Le Blanc that game making us have two assassins. but please...

After we're locked in and loading please don't continue to rail on me for choosing her and playing her all the time. Don't continue to tell me she sucks even when I'm moving into my lane. Don't even bitch about Le Blanc 10 minutes into the game about her getting destroyed quickly in team fights. I'm sorry, but it's really demoralizing and distracting and I felt that against Kennen.

Please stop. I'm making an effort to learn other champions. I'm going to buy Brand, Vayne, and play more Nasus. In that order...


D:

Your character choice wasn't the problem, as far as the biggest issue was. Obviously having a team comp that consisted of "pick who I'm in the mood for" does hurt, but the problems were deeper than that. We discussed that at the champ select and load screen and, unfortunately, we weren't able to really objectively talk about it in a neutral way that could help adjust the character in time because we were too busy talking over each other.

That said, it had nothing to do with our actual performance the following game and I can't stress that enough. I made mistakes (bad chases, etc), others made mistakes (bad chases and bad map awareness), we all did things that we could have learned from over the course of the game to apply to other games. I think one of the things that irked me was the statement that "You learn absolutely nothing from a lost game" because that is shirking the responsibility. Screaming that "GAREN IS OP" all game or that we, as a team and as individuals, are not making mistakes and its just that they are "OP" completely absolves oneself of the responsibility of their actions, projecting all blame out. You learn a lot from a lost game, and the stance that you don't is, honestly, a personal issue of pride that will hold you back from getting better.

EDIT: That said, I don't actually intend to discuss this any further, because it was made clear that it wasn't going to get anywhere.

[Jonathan Meer]

I said Garen was OP at the 30-second mark. Before minions spawned. And that's the only time I said it.

And I didn't say we didn't make mistakes.

You do learn a lot from a lost game. You don't learn a lot from playing in a clearly hopeless game.

[Kaden]

You do learn a lot from a lost game. You don't learn a lot from playing in a clearly hopeless game.

Completely disagree.

No game starts being completely hopeless. None. If that's how the game happens, then you can learn from trying to identify how. As a team, ideally.

EDIT: The only exception to that "never" was when Xin Zhao was released and only one team had him. That was genuinely gg at the loading screen. No champion is like that currently.

[Jonathan Meer]

Completely disagree.

No game starts being completely hopeless.

That's not what I'm saying, nor was that my original remarks (which have been all but lost in Tim's post).

It's like chess. You improve your chess game best from going over one of your hard-fought lost games and analyzing it to find where things went wrong.

You don't improve your chess game by continuing to play that game if you're a rook and a queen down, and then analyzing that series of moves. That situation is so imbalanced, and so far-removed from the initial set-up, that there simply is little-to-nothing to learn.

I've got a reputation now for being overly surrenderous (which is unfounded now), but it's this same principle. If the game is clearly lost (which some games are, at a point), then there's no point in playing further. There's usually no fun to it, and there's certainly nothing to learn from watching your nexus get taken down. Except maybe how to turtle in extremely imbalanced set-ups.

[Rafael]

Gotta say I'm with Meer generally. Close games are awesome, being 4-30 on kills, even if we can win through some voodoo or backdoor magic, isn't fun for me(Teleporting TF to the Nexus, wut?) and I have a limit I suppose is lower than some people for the amount of getting crushed before I start doubting comebacks, but everyone has theirs.

[Super Buu]

I agree with Meer pretty much. However, I'd say my 'surrender point' is higher than most people, because I've had many games where I'm SURE I'm going to lose and brought it back. And I TEND to still have fun whilst I'm losing.

[Kaden]

...

You're correct. I misread your post. The "playing in" part makes it a completely different point than what I responded to.

I don't view you as someone who is quick to surrender. I view you as someone who is quick to determine that a game is lost/hopeless. The problem with that, and I don't mean this to be offensive, is that I also don't think you're at the point, as a player, where you can accurately make that determination yet.

Really what it comes down to is how much time you're willing to put into a game to try and make a comeback. There have been a lot of times where I've simply said "yes, I think we will eventually win this game, but it is not worth the 40 minutes of my time it will take." In my eyes, we can either use that time to try and win a game we're losing (which we are, simply by the definition of "comeback") or start and play a new game where we're not already behind.

[Rafael]

The last paragraph there pretty much sums up my view on comebacks. Even if you eventually win, was it worth it?

[John Doe]

Even if you eventually win, was it worth it?

s

[Super Buu]

Broken images?

[Rafael]

Not really seeing how that's related, but okay.

[Jonathan Meer]

I don't view you as someone who is quick to surrender. I view you as someone who is quick to determine that a game is lost/hopeless. The problem with that, and I don't mean this to be offensive, is that I also don't think you're at the point, as a player, where you can accurately make that determination yet.

Not taken as offensive, and you're probably right.

[Jonathan Meer]

Lame: Pugs in bot games who treat team-fights like last-hitting minions.

Just played with a nocturne who would literally hide behind the brunt of a teamfight, and dash just in time to get the kill. He had 25 kills in a 30 minute game, and was mostly useless.

And unfortunately, I couldn't berate him as he didn't speak english.

[Ashe]

Co-op vs AI is essentially a game of "Wack a mole" with the moles being opponents. There's a bit of a meta game within it of "WHO CAN OUT KS THEIR TEAM MATES?" Sometimes I participate (but I also actually fight, I just will save that last burst hit for the kill shot), sometimes I don't.