We Want to Know

[Burter]

The name was made out of humor, if people are offended (including Dana), we can change it. 17 said he didn't care

[Raditzu]

Originally posted by Broli
Another issue would be looking a few steps ahead. Opening a thread for Dana being banned wasn't intended to lead to him being bashed, but that's exactly what happened. That's a problem of staff not looking ahead and seeing that possibility. Staff has the role of being able to foresee what problems may occur in the future and must be able to take actions to prevent those issues.

Ok... I'll be totally honest. I knew the bashing was going to happen. You'd have to have the IQ of a rock to not be able to see that one. Here's what happened:

I made a thread announcing Dana's deletion, showed the proof, and locked the thread. Dana came by, deleted a couple of forums and, specifically, the thread I had made. Now, I was somewhat less than happy with the situation, so I remade the thread, leaving out a few of the finer points that were in my first (anyone notice the URLs of the screenshots?) and ignoring the fact that bashing would occur. When I had gotten over it, I calmed down and locked the thread.

Was it childish, sophomoric, and exactly the kind of thing I would accuse Dana of doing himself? Absolutely. Was it exactly the kind of thing an admin should be above doing? Yup. But, in addition to being an admin, I'm also a RolePlaying member of this RPG. I put being a member before being an admin when I made that decision, and that's not something I do often.

My point is, if that's the only thing that was making you worry about staff foresight, then don't.

[Raditzu]

Oh! And please include names if you're mentioning specific incidents. Generalities don't really help unless its genuinely a problem with the whole staff.

Don't worry, if any of the staff members want to stay on staff, they need to learn to take criticism; this is a great place to start.

[Broli]

As Burter easily pointed out, yes, I was thinking specifically of the issues between him and Hellfighter 17.

A more recent example, though, would be the argument between Krillin and Hellfighter 17 over a simple grammar issue.

Rad, I'm not sure if you're telling me I have the IQ of a rock, but I will say that Dana is the only thinking ahead situation I can think of.

[Burter]

Me and HF talked. He knows what I think is wrong with him, and I know what he thinks is wrong with me. I don't know if you noticed, but both of us have changed, even if only slightly, how we act on the boards.

I don't know about Mike, but I personally see him in a much higher light now that he's opened himself a bit differently, and I hope he does for me as well

[Drake]

Originally posted by Burter
Me and HF talked. He knows what I think is wrong with him, and I know what he thinks is wrong with me. I don't know if you noticed, but both of us have changed, even if only slightly, how we act on the boards.

I don't know about Mike, but I personally see him in a much higher light now that he's opened himself a bit differently, and I hope he does for me as well

What's wrong with you two is that you're not Kakarot, but since there can be only one of me- I don't judge you. u_u

[Raditzu]

And for those who can't see the staff forum, Burter and HF really are... well... behaving.

And no, Broli, I wasn't saying you have the IQ of a rock.

>.>

[Hellfighter 17]

Originally posted by Broli
A more recent example, though, would be the argument between Krillin and Hellfighter 17 over a simple grammar issue.

That was an argument between two members, not two staff members. Iunno if anyone's noticed (>.>), but I just plain liek debating, even a moot point. I generally try not to do this with staff issues, though, since there's way more to do.

If by "I also encourage members to think about staff's performance as a whole rather than it's dealings with the whole Dana topic lately" you meant us keeping things up-to-date, then you're right. Not many people were updating much for a while, but I think people, myself included, started stepping up to teh plate more, although I admit this whoel fiasco has really drained me from doing that (the thought that so much might have to be re-written just drains the energy from me), but hopefully I pick back up again.

Also, yea, Reb definitely doesn't make me grind my teeth anymore. I was a bit upset when I came back from my break and was stuck at mod for a while due to SM spots being filled up, considering, but I've moved passed that.

I personally feel that, if there aren't much more staff added soon, that the current group will become one of the best during my tenure here. I am not aware of any hostitlities between staff members currently, and six months ago there were quite a few.

Also, thanks for the comments everyone. Seeing Chubbs work cooperatively makes things a lot easier, yo. =o Oh, and Kakarot, I'm sorry for not being you. =(

[Reijin]

Additionally... We foresaw problems coming from it. However, there's that nice line where if you let something get posts you are not doing your job because we "know people will flame" and its unnecessary. Then on the other side you are "a nazi for locking it when you don't really know what people are going to say, and its bullshit to stamp out their voices". Sometimes we have to let something hit that point first.

[Jewtastic]

I don?t believe you could have done anything about the Dana thread save sending out a Mass PM stating what had happened and urging us not to discuss it on the boards. But even then, you didn?t need to do that.

The only problem I have with Chubbs as a whole is the way the staff goes about talking to sites with content problems. I remember when Evo opened the staff, quickly jumped on it, as if they like finding sites so they can shut them down. Granted, its fun, I will admit, but the way that the staff can come off is well, intimidating.

I mean you have the two admins?who get in there, and then you get Burter. Burter by himself can be a little intimidating, but with the admins, its enough to really make any smaller RPG literally shit a brick.

Not just that but then you get the members on Chubbs spouting out what ever they want while pretty much holding an open forum for bashing while the staff is busy with the problem. Then once staff is done, they see that some bashing was going on, and they come in, lock the thread and explain its not how they wanted it to turn out.

I?m not saying that you do intend for it to be a bitch out where the other party has no say, nor am I saying there is much of a better way to go about it, but there has to be something. From the outside, when Chubbs is going after someone, it really looks like they are on a war path.

Those are just my Two Cents though, so if they don?t make sense don?t really worry, incoherent ramblings at work and all.

[Bujin]

You also have to understand that some people will burn the Chubbs flag for practically no reason. It's funny how some people complain about the staff outside of the boards, but when a thread like this comes up, they're dreadfully quiet about it.

Take some of the FoF people a while back, for example. They hated Chubbs merely because of the fact that FoF was getting ignored because of a saga going on here. That's not the staff's fault, but since you guys are the pretty much the faces of this community, you're going to take a good portion of the blame.

So really, if some (keyword being some...I don't want people complaining that "ZOMG, they had a reason") people say they hate the Chubbs staff, there won't be much you can do about it.

However, it's good to see that most of these guys actually have some criticism, so kudos to them.

[Reijin]

Mura - I agree with you. I still feel that if someone is ripping us that we should deal with it and deal with it hard, but we should keep that to staff boards mostly and not post the link out here. A lot of problems get caused by members (and possibly staff although I cannot think of where) posting links to sites going "This noob wanted me to see his site, check it out, it sucks and they ripped off chubbs" and then twenty replies being made to flame the site. That shouldn't happen, and I personally try to prevent it when I can, but in the end being staff means everyone claims the staff supported it.

[Jewtastic]

I also agree the staff should come down hard, but with three people who quite frankly would scare me if it was my RPG comming down on them they all get the bad side of Chubbs. I mean I really don't know the procedure, if you go in first talking, being civil, or you go in gun blazing getting your friends shot in the arse (movie quote ftw!!!!!)

Now I would assume its the former not the Latter, Especially if its a staff member that finds the site. But really, I think the only thing that the staff as a whole needs to work on is really trying to keep things more under control when something like this happens. I mean yea, everyone wanted to Bash Dana, even the staff did, but there comes a point when it gets enough, and really the thread lasted like 3 pages to long.

What ever, I got my point out, all I can do is hope it helps is some sense or another.

[Bra]

@Bujin: Yeah, I remember that. But the thing is, we can't be held responsible for another website being ignored. I never understood how low traffic on a site we had nothing to do with turned into us fucking people over. XD

Anyway, going back to what Rad said, yeah, none of us are gonna hold anything against you guys. Not if it's said here. Besides, I'm kinda curious if I do something that annoys people or whatever.

[Broli]

Originally posted by Hell Fighter 17
If by "I also encourage members to think about staff's performance as a whole rather than it's dealings with the whole Dana topic lately" you meant us keeping things up-to-date, then you're right. Not many people were updating much for a while, but I think people, myself included, started stepping up to teh plate more, although I admit this whoel fiasco has really drained me from doing that (the thought that so much might have to be re-written just drains the energy from me), but hopefully I pick back up again.

I wasn't implying that there's been a lack of updates on staff's part. I was telling members to just think about staff as a whole. A recent issue like Dana has the habit of clouding the mindset of members with exactly what has happened lately instead of what's been going on all year. I'm not implying that something bad has happened all year, or that you guys haven't been updating things.

That was an argument between two members, not two staff members.

But see, you can't just pick and choose who you are day by day. You can't be a member one day and a staff member the next. There's no dividing of it. You are a staff member, and regardless of where you are or what you're doing, you will always be a staff member. That includes setting an example towards the other members and showing them what is ok and what is not ok. I can't emphasize enough that you cannot simply say, "Oh, well that was just me being a member today," because people don't see it like that. They don't think, "He's not being staff right now. He's being a member." When you become staff, you're seen as staff in the eyes of every member. There's no separation. It was an argument between two staff members.

[Dantes]

Well for me, i really don't have a problem with staff. For me, when i have something that needs updated, or a question it gets asked pretty quickly. Although i do think that updates sit around for a little too long. I've seen some things get passed by for a week or two, before even being replied, but then again things can be overlooked.

I really don't mind that staff let people bash the hell outta the people who get banned, just because in both cases i was around for noone liked them or they had friends but what they did was so bad everyone just went crazy. (Max and Dana). i think someone said this already but it's completely true, that we (as members) will talk about it weather it be on the forums, PM's, or AIM.

To me i think it's more of what Garlic said, two people's thoughts on every issue will always collide. Staff will think one way, while a member will think a different way. With each discussion you will have an agruement just because there are soo many opinions here. For me to sit here and pick out all of staff's problems would be selfish, and childish unless i pointed out certain members and there problems.

Yeah Staff can be intimidating, and i understand why. But overall i think you guys are coming out of a little slump here and doing just fine. People say that burter is a dick, and that people are lazy, but we never see what is going on back stage so we can't judge them. Quite frankly i don't know how burter acts towards others, but he's been very helpful to me and he's never been an ass. You gotta understand that staff are just members too, and they can get as annoyed with what we say as we do with them. It'll be a never ending conflict, that only seems to pop up when something crazy happens, or when a topic goes outta control.

Back when i was Yamcha, i think i PMed HF17 like 5 times a day, and never once got a rude comment. I think it's all about how members go about asking and talking about things. There are hundreds of sides to each staff member, and if you keep picking at them your bound to get a bad one. it's like poking a beehive with a stick, when you get noobs who make three hundred threads a day, your bound to get pissed off.

[Reijin]

@Broli: So we aren't allowed to ever actually enjoy this site and should always stick to being mindless work machines that are only here to serve you, and our true opinions on anything should never be known?

[Piccolo Daimoun]

Originally posted by Reijin
@Broli: So we aren't allowed to ever actually enjoy this site and should always stick to being mindless work machines that are only here to serve you, and our true opinions on anything should never be known?

I think what he's saying is people won't divide the two apart. When they look at you arguing on the boards, they'll see two staff members going at it, via the shiny title on the left side of the screen.

I don't think he was trying to offend you like that, nor am I, but I'm merely saying what I've thought as well if I see two staff members argue.

[Grandpa Gohan]

Originally posted by Piccolo Daimoun

Originally posted by Reijin
@Broli: So we aren't allowed to ever actually enjoy this site and should always stick to being mindless work machines that are only here to serve you, and our true opinions on anything should never be known?

I think what he's saying is people won't divide the two apart. When they look at you arguing on the boards, they'll see two staff members going at it, via the shiny title on the left side of the screen.

I don't think he was trying to offend you like that, nor am I, but I'm merely saying what I've thought as well if I see two staff members argue.

I was going to post about this earlier, but I didn't cause half way through i felt it didnt, and now I do.

When I saw the thing between HF17 and Krillin, I didnt see two staff debating. Just two members of the RPG. I didn't feel as there wasn any hostilities outside of it being a debate, but thats just me.

Though I must say I've seen tensions flare between staff. Burter is an extremely good example, if it's getting out of hand or whatever, he'll simply post for them to get on AIM, and then its done. At least on the forums. Though I have seen staff take shots at each other, because they had a bad day or something. But we all do, and I'm not going to hold it against them.

Most of the staff team were members before they were staff, and yes, granted, they ARE staff. This doesn't mean they should be like the borg(Thanks Borgos xD). Im speaking as current staff of another site, I know that if I had to play staff every single time I got on the board, I'd quit.

These just my opinions though. =o

[Burter]

@16: You underestimate exactly how many updates have to be done regularly.