RAGE Thread

[Vad]

I agree with his logic to a certain point. We just need to teach him to read the fight to know when we can't salvage it. Usually he's wrong and we pull the victory. Ashe and Tryg know what I'm talking about.

He's right. I don't want to waste my time, but if I see a shimmer of hope I'd like to hack and slash so I can reach it.

EDIT: Again Meer. I'm not trying to bash you.

[Rafael]

rrrr @ asshole tryns who think, because they get a couple kills and start getting geared, they're gods of LoL.

Related Like: Dumbass tryns who are stupidly aggressive and, even with ult, can't break down rammus' health fast enough to get the kill, and is easy pickins once slowed

Just started trying this dude out. He's hilariously fun late game, but it's somewhat rought getting there if you get ranged in lane. Had Malz and Brand just now, that was shitty

[Jonathan Meer]

I dunno. I feel like I'm just being the asshole that's putting everyone else down to make myself feel better.

That said, watching my team jump into 5v4s, or run through the enemy jungle alone not five seconds after they all disappear on the mini-map, all fucking game gets irritating.

If one of your teammates is dead and one of them is in the shop, you should not be mid fighting minions when their entire team is mia. I had to say that over and over again and by the end just gave up. I wish I'd known none of you were taking that game seriously from the get-go; I would played ad soraka

[Jonathan Meer]

I agree with his logic to a certain point. We just need to teach him to read the fight to know when we can't salvage it. Usually he's wrong and we pull the victory. Ashe and Tryg know what I'm talking about.

He's right. I don't want to waste my time, but if I see a shimmer of hope I'd like to hack and slash so I can reach it.

EDIT: Again Meer. I'm not trying to bash you.

No, it's cool.

Since it requires a 4v1 vote, though, I don't exactly see what the issue is with an early surrender. I'm someone who would rather forfeit the clearly lost game than make it drag on for 25 more minutes. By that time, I can be 24 minutes into a new game that might be more even. If my estimate is wrong, then hit 'No.' Problem solved.

[Jarka]

My policy with surrendering is:

If I'm completely miserable, hit yes.

If I'm having fun with the game, hit no. I've lost games before that, while I get frustrated and ragey, I still have fun during them. However, LoL should not feel like a chore. I do not wish to drudge through a game for the sake of honor. I'd much rather reroll for a better match. It's not like LoL is super quick or anything; most matches are about an hour. Why waste that not having fun?

Rage: I've apparently gone moronic in LoL lately. Sigh.

[Kaden]

I've surrendered games I'm having fun with if it's clear we're going to lose anyway.

It takes a while to really get a good feel for when to surrender. If you lose a team fight, for example, you need to be able to see WHY your team lost a team fight. Were you all together? Did you get the initiation? Was the map positioning optimal for your team? Did your carries/tanks maintain appropriate positioning? Did your team focus/did your team focus the correct targets?

If the answer to all those questions is "yes" and you suffer a decisive loss or ace, surrender. If the answer to some or most is "I'm not sure," then wait until you CAN be sure before deciding; it's not hard to whip up another team-fight to analyze. If the answer is no, then tell your team to get their act together (just make sure it's in a mostly-constructive way).

Dariden -- and to a lesser extent, Trygelan -- HATES to surrender. He likes to see the chance for victory regardless of how the game is actually going. I'm sure he has a different interpretation of that, but there ya go. Sometimes it's perfectly called for. I know more than once I've just been pissed and called the surrender vote more symbolically than anything else.

The other thing to keep an eye on is the champ make-up of each team. If you're running a team of, say, LeBlance, Blitz, Kassadin, TF, and Zilean and you're losing the early/mid game, then you might as well just surrender. On the other hand, if you're running Tryn, Yi, Karthus, Kog'Maw, and Kayle then don't freak out if you're not doing great right off the bat; just keep your loses to a minimum while your team gears up. Which brings me to gauging CS. Keep an eye on the creep scores compared to the other team and which champs have the best.

Look at playstyle, also. If you're balling up and crashing into the other team and losing fight KNOCK IT OFF. Diving into Amumu, Nunu, Kennen, Xin, and Brand WILL get your team rocked. Don't do that shit. Split push. Or play a roaming gank-squad.

Just recently I was playing in a game with Waff/Dariden/Teemer/Tryg and, by all right, we should have lost. I was Lux and the other team would just 5-man dive down our mid lane. After a couple of charges I realized that all 5 were pushing, so I went into their bottom lane and just pushed (28 second ult on Lux makes her a beast pusher). Yeah, by most definitions my team lost the 4v5, but by the time the enemy got to our Inner Turret, I was on their Inhibitor Turret. By the time they were on our Inhibitor Turret I had damage on their Inhibitor. Then people respawned and everyone got pushed back.

They continued to do these pushes without defending so we continued to counter-push empty lanes while 4 defended. Before we knew it, Super Minions were wailing on their Nexus turrets and they had to back off if they didn't want to lose the game. It was a situation where countering their playstyle is precisely what won us the game.

So, yeah. My point is that there's a lot to look at when judging how a game is going. The more you play the easier it is to just look at a 25-minute-mark fight and know how the rest of the game should play out.

[Ashe]

Absolute truth. I contest nothing about that. Trygelan is in the "doesn't surrender 95%" of the time bracket and I'm in the "98%" bracket. If I've surrendered, that should say something. If there's a "NO" vote, 98 times out of a 100, its me and him.

Something that frustrates me heavily, regarding what Meer said, is that sometimes people don't view it as a vote. I view it every time as "Do you desire this game to be over right now?", with each person putting their opinion in, making their opinions known. If 4 of 5 vote it (and yes, I have had quite a few times where Tryg has voted yes in situations I've voted no, so I don't want the interpretation that we lock votes up to be had), then that's what the accepted majority desire, and thus the final opinion is meaningless. What I hate though is that some people get to the point where its not a vote at all - its a statement of intent. Typing /surrender is their way of saying "I'm done with this game. You can continue if you want, but I'm done, and I will either stand in the Nexus, feed, screw around with solo Baron attempts, suicide towers down, whatever until you finish as well." This puts me (and possibly others) into a quandary of "Do I vote what my opinion is, or is that option taken away from me out of risk of the person putting forth the 'vote' viewing everyone who disagrees with them as a 'fucking asshole'?" Also, chances are if this sounds familiar to you, then yes, I have you (plural) in mind for it, but no, I'm not specifically trying to call any one person out because if I were, I'd put names. This is something that I've felt myself in the position of multiple times and no one person is the sole example there - if I did name examples, I would have at least three, possibly four names instantly coming to mind. Note - I still play with these people regularly, so its not a strong feeling and I am sure they have equal level thoughts in counter to it. But I do want to make it aware, regarding Meer's comment, that sometimes its not simply a "vote" as intended but a statement of "I quit - we lose - how fast we lose is up to you - but I'm done".

---

And again, in a Normal game, I play one hundred percent for the fun of the game itself and have a blast in almost all situations. If I'm getting demolished, I'm still having a blast trying to get through their team to that carry in the back, even in a bad trade. I make little games out of it and never feel "bored" with LoL.

In a Ranked game, I absolutely can feel very Civik-ish and get super demoralized early game and want to just take my loss up my ass and move on.

Part of why I tend to be against surrenders though, just as a consideration, is that even though its rare, I like the chased victories, and I also have had a number of times where you are guaranteed a loss on board position on Magic and stolen victory from a good topdeck (luck or not is debatable - there are many times where you did luckily draw the card, but it only worked as an out because you played yourself into a situation to ALLOW for that out) or even occasionally a player "punting the game" as they say, where they just make a blatant misplay suddenly that gives you back the game.

In MTGO, for example (and this doesn't translate over to LoL other than lucky aces), I've had opponents accidentally skip through an entire turn or combat phase the turn I was dead on the board. I then had just enough to push lethal through on the following turn, sometimes due to a draw, sometimes not. If they hadn't fucked up, I was dead. But they did. And no, if I'm in a tournament and we playing for prizes, we are both playing to win. There are no take backs and there is no "honorable concede because YOU actually won that game, sorry for the misclick". Some people are that "honorable" but I've lost many a game to misclicks and other issues, and using the interface or not missing a trigger in offline play (you have a "may" trigger during your upkeep, you immediately draw your card and start to play a spell, then suddenly you go "Oh, during my upkeep I meant to pay this cost to keep this guy alive" - sorry, you meant to, but you didn't. You drew and signaled that you have passed that step. If this is FNM, I'm a bit more lenient, but if I'm in a high end tourney, I'm not trying to help you win, and I expect the same approach to me. Another example is "Ok, I untap, I draw my card, oh, you are at one btw because I pinged you with my Pyromancer end step and now I ping you again, gg". "Except you didn't. You don't decide last turn's end step during your draw phase of the next turn. If you said before drawing 'ok, during end step I ping you, now my turn I untap and do it again' then its totally different.") is part of the process of winning or throwing a game. I will take what advantages I can get - this is how we tighten our play.

[Super Buu]

9/10 times, I'd rather play a game out to the end. Regardless of whether I'm losing or winning. The only exception is, like Jarka said, when I'm not having fun. Usually that's when my team are raging (I have a very low tolerance for listening to other people bitch), or if we're getting beaten back so effortlessly that it's not even a struggle. It's a major disappointment to me when a game ends on a surrender, or when someone quits.

A 'chased victory' like Ashe described is great. It's even better when the opposing team gets cocky and starts mouthing off when they're winning, and then you beat them back. The ragetears that result taste more exquisitely sweet than any other.

[Tyr]

My stand is that in LoL, in the situations where you're losing, 9/10 times where the game turn it's because of an event not caused by your side, but by the enemy's side. I honestly any game can be won by a mistake on the other team's side if it's not what lets them have the push to the Nexus. That means from start to the point where the last % of the Nexus gets knocked away, there's a chance you'll win.

FYI I think this is also why some people says that there's a ELO hell. You can be carrying insanely hard and then fuck up and just watch as the cannon fodder of your team can do nothing but shrivel before the might of the other team. No one likes to think they did that one fatal mistake that lost the game though, so it's easier just to say ELO hell. Truth is, if you could have won if you hadn't made that mistake, it's your fault. Yes, your teammates could have been better, but that's not how it panned out.

I can understand why people disagree with this though, it's a difficult thing to admit/realize. I still haven't from time to time.

[John Doe]

When your team refuses to group up, even when you have a better AoE team comp, it's ELO hell.

When your team backdoors when everyone else is in the base defending three dead inhibitors, it's ELO hell.

When your team has a Pantheon that jumps into the enemy fountain, it's ELO hell.

We would like to remind you that ELO hell is a real place and you will be sent there at the first sign of defiance.

[Tyr]

I meant the ELO hell as in a fixed # of rating. Yeah, some people suck, but getting stuck below a threshold all boils down to one thing:

You didn't carry hard enough.

[Kaden]

A 'chased victory' like Ashe described is great. It's even better when the opposing team gets cocky and starts mouthing off when they're winning, and then you beat them back. The ragetears that result taste more exquisitely sweet than any other.

Its great when it happens, yeah, but I find it so demoralizing to reach for that tiny glimmer of hope and then get stomped anyway. And, since we're using it, nine times out of ten, that's exactly what happens. Then I'm demoralized and pissed off that I spent thirty minutes getting demoralized.

[Kaden]

I meant the ELO hell as in a fixed # of rating. Yeah, some people suck, but getting stuck below a threshold all boils down to one thing:

You didn't carry hard enough.

Not even.

"Elo hell" is about a lot more than that. People who will only play one champion. People who don't speak English. People who AFK. People who feed intentional because they're trolling. People who DC. People who play things like mageplank or man-drop-eon.

Telling people "carry harder" just means that all they're going to do is pick a carry. If you're the last pick and your team already has Ashe, Xin, and Corki, you don't get to be a carry. Suck it up and do what's best for your team. THAT'S how you deal with it, getting your team to function as properly as possible, not that ridiculously egocentric "I must carry or else I fail" view that people keep pushing. That's why Elo hell exists.

[Tyr]

Not even.

"Elo hell" is about a lot more than that. People who will only play one champion. People who don't speak English. People who AFK. People who feed intentional because they're trolling. People who DC. People who play things like mageplank or man-drop-eon.

Telling people "carry harder" just means that all they're going to do is pick a carry. If you're the last pick and your team already has Ashe, Xin, and Corki, you don't get to be a carry. Suck it up and do what's best for your team. THAT'S how you deal with it, getting your team to function as properly as possible, not that ridiculously egocentric "I must carry or else I fail" view that people keep pushing. That's why Elo hell exists.

The traditional term for a carry in MOBA games is not as easily applied to League of Legends. Compared to DotA and HoN, a caster can scale way better. This doesn't matter though, as that's not the point of the message. You can carry as any character in the game, although some definitely do make it more difficult, if you're good enough of a player. It might be noted that while individual player skill is the most key factor, another way a good player will be recognized is the way he treats his fellow members. However as you can surely testify if you've watched say HotshotGG's stream, you don't need to be nice to your teammates to win. It certainly does help their co-operation though.

You have to remember the lower elo ranges are not one-sided and it's not just MM placing all the latest spawns of "ELO hell" on your team. All those players? Both sides. If you're good enough of a player, you will stand out and lead your team to victory, one way or another. A diamond surrounded by shit will still be a diamond.

[Super Buu]

Its great when it happens, yeah, but I find it so demoralizing to reach for that tiny glimmer of hope and then get stomped anyway. And, since we're using it, nine times out of ten, that's exactly what happens. Then I'm demoralized and pissed off that I spent thirty minutes getting demoralized.

Just different strokes. I still have fun when I lose.

[Jonathan Meer]

Its great when it happens, yeah, but I find it so demoralizing to reach for that tiny glimmer of hope and then get stomped anyway. And, since we're using it, nine times out of ten, that's exactly what happens. Then I'm demoralized and pissed off that I spent thirty minutes getting demoralized.

This. If it's obvious we're going to get fuckstomped (and by 'obvious', I mean our team is all 15s with mid-gear, while they're fully geared 18s), and the surrender vote fails, I hate (seriously hate, not just dislike, fucking penis in a blender, pubic hairs in my cereal milk, HATE) spending fifteen minutes getting fuckstomped. And I usually then don't feel like playing any more LoL that day, or if I do, it has to be a 'safe' game (intermediate bots, or a Chubbs only game, or ARAM).

If, instead, we surrender the clearly lost game, some face is saved (yeah, we're aware we're getting owned, gg folks, nj), some time is saved, and the next game can begin without feeling like shit.

If I'm playing Ryze and I haven't been able to get geared and the laning phase is over, then my game is over. I have become perfectly useless; little more than a valuable target. This happens much more rarely these days than it used to, but depending on the lane partner and my opponents, it DOES happen from time to time. And it fucking sucks.

[John Doe]

ELO Hell exists, and it's a fact. You can't carry a leaver/feeder "I'll 1v5 the team" afker tower diving bunch of assholes. LoL's a team game. If your team is shit, then you, unfortunately, shall be shit as well.

I've never seen a Soraka carry the game.

[Tyr]

Explain to me how people get high rated then? Have an amazing luck streak of no players that are bad until 2k rating?

[Waffuru]

What I don't understand is why everyone thinks they can get to the top rating... you can't. You get to the rating that you are and then you'll fluctuate around it until you get better or have a lucky streak.

I mean, yeah, you can end up with shit teammates but so can the other team. If you play enough games you should end up in a rating with players of a similar skill level where you can win like every other game with some regularity.

tl;dr you're not a 2k player

[Rafael]

Well, being exceedingly good helps, obviously. No one can 1v5 a team, but if you play well and get fed, you can pull much more than your own weight and hope for the best, basically.