Sony kicked 'yo ass foo!

[Jonathan Meer]

What surprises me is the lack of a class-action lawsuit.

Sony got raped for the unreliability of the PS2 console (for which reason I got two new consoles for free) and it's nowhere near as bad as the 360's track record.

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/10/...california

[Sage]

You are wrong. I don't mean to be rude, but it is senseless. Sony claims they made it difficult so the full potential of the machine couldn't be exploited early on. They deliberately made it difficult to code for.

Do you know how stupid that sounds?

It's not amateurism. It's arrogance. Like when the consoles first launched and Sony claimed they would conquer the market and there wouldn't be any competition within months. And then fucked it all up, banking on the fact that their prestige and success with the PS2 would carry them through and attract all the 3rd party devs.

As far as your 'percentages of people who buy 'x'', that's... horribly opinionated. I'm not even going to touch that one.

Finally, I should hope that the PS3 can be pushed harder than the 360. It's got immensely better hardware. Not that you'd be able to tell when you actually load up a game on each and compare.

EDIT: Good. Thanks for the link, Meer. That's good to see.

[Belle Hibiki]

How is Sony "kicking ass" by doing this?

Doing this pretty much announces that they're doing terribly.

[Sage]

I wouldn't say they're doing bad. They've got the short end of the market share but they're still very healthy. It's not like they're getting dominated.

[Belle Hibiki]

I'm more looking at the fact that Sony has had to continually slash their prices over and over again to remain competitive. This latest price drop and packaging change has to do with the economic climate and the reality that there aren't a helluva lot of people that are going to shell out for a PS3 these days when they can get most of the big-name titles on the 360 as well. The PS3 has better graphics, but people aren't going to pay hundreds of dollars more for that - generally.

[Super Buu]

Doing this pretty much announces that they're doing terribly.

lol wut

DS has had three iterations and it's doing better than any of the home consoles.

Semi-relevant edit: In fact, I kind of hate them for it since I went ahead and upgraded to Lite and the D-PAD IS FUCKED FOR METROID: HUNTERS PLAYING >=O Now I refuse to upgrade to DSi but apparently the thing is tons better.

[Sage]

DS? ...Really?

Wow. I don't know anyone who has one.

[Belle Hibiki]

lol wut

DS has had three iterations and it's doing better than any of the home consoles.

In fact, I kind of hate them for it since I went ahead and upgraded to Lite and the D-PAD IS FUCKED FOR METROID: HUNTERS PLAYING >=O Now I refuse to upgrade to DSi but apparently the thing is tons better.

Point. Although I'd be curious to look at the relative prices between the iterations. It also doesn't really have competition. (Yes, there's 'that other' handheld thing, but they're so far apart in sales as to be laughable.)

[Dr. Cringle]

DS? ...Really?

Wow. I don't know anyone who has one.

Weird. I know of like five people who do, and some who are greatly interested in getting one. Maybe it's an age gap thing. There are a lot of teenagers here who own one.

Also, there's another new iteration for the DS? Man.

[Belle Hibiki]

The DSlite is a slimmed down version of a DS.

DS:


DSlite:

[Jonathan Meer]

You are wrong. I don't mean to be rude, but it is senseless. Sony claims they made it difficult so the full potential of the machine couldn't be exploited early on. They deliberately made it difficult to code for.

Do you know how stupid that sounds?

It's not amateurism. It's arrogance. Like when the consoles first launched and Sony claimed they would conquer the market and there wouldn't be any competition within months. And then fucked it all up, banking on the fact that their prestige and success with the PS2 would carry them through and attract all the 3rd party devs.

It isn't senseless though.

Again, bear with me here, as I don't know what I'm talking about. I'll admit that right now. But I do think I can make educated guesses.

Let's assume that the complication is solely because of the reason you gave (I'd be interested in reading a transcript of that press conference, btw). By doing this, developers will make in-roads into the system, whereby it is, with every competent new game, stretched further; constantly improving. This way, the market is kept excited with every passing game, because, in an ideal way (which, of course, does not correspond EXACTLY with actuality), every new game would be better than the last. From a business standpoint, this makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is admitting it. That's a bit odd.

As far as your 'percentages of people who buy 'x'', that's... horribly opinionated. I'm not even going to touch that one.

No, I'm not trying to be opinionated. Just, from what I know of 360 owners and PS3 owners, PS3 owners tend to be more 'hardcore and spending'. 360 is somewhat more casual than PS3. That doesn't mean there aren't hardcore games on the 360 (of course there are), and it doesn't mean there isn't a casual market on the PS3 (of course there is).

Again, I don't have a statistic to back up that claim, but it is an educated guess, and I would be surprised if it was wrong.

Finally, I should hope that the PS3 can be pushed harder than the 360. It's got immensely better hardware. Not that you'd be able to tell when you actually load up a game on each and compare.

If you can't tell, then that is the fault of the developer. When I play Metal Gear Solid 4 in HD, and then play Gears of War 2 in HD, there is a noticeable difference in quality.

[Jack]

I hereby decree that threads like this be referred to as "Obama Thread". Not "an Obama Thread", or "the Obama Thread". Obama Thread.

Obama Thread back in the hizouse!!!

PS: I don't see how this shows that they're doing terrible. Broke mothafuckas like me have been waiting for this for a long time, this is exciting news.

[Belle Hibiki]

If you can't tell, then that is the fault of the developer. When I play Metal Gear Solid 4 in HD, and then play Gears of War 2 in HD, there is a noticeable difference in quality.

Except didn't you just admit that the PS3 is horrible to code for? So doesn't the fact that the developers have issues pushing the PS3 to its limit sort of tie into that?

[Jonathan Meer]

I'm more looking at the fact that Sony has had to continually slash their prices over and over again to remain competitive. This latest price drop and packaging change has to do with the economic climate and the reality that there aren't a helluva lot of people that are going to shell out for a PS3 these days when they can get most of the big-name titles on the 360 as well. The PS3 has better graphics, but people aren't going to pay hundreds of dollars more for that - generally.

Whoa. The PS3 has never been hundreds of dollars more than the 360. At most it was a hundred more (if memory serves). Other times, fifty more.

And everyone is slashing prices. It comes with the times. Xbox is doing it too.

And the PS3 slim thing is hardly new. They did it for the PS2 too.

[Jonathan Meer]

Except didn't you just admit that the PS3 is horrible to code for? So doesn't the fact that the developers have issues pushing the PS3 to its limit sort of tie into that?

I didn't admit that it's horrible to code for. I don't know that that is the case. I've heard it is difficult.

But if you apply a competent developer to it, it will SING.

EDIT: Think of it like a machine-gun against an insta-gib rifle in a shooter. With a machine-gun, it's pretty standard and easy to use, and you'll likely do well with it. With an insta-gib rifle, if you don't have the timing and know-how, it won't fare well. But if you do, people won't stand a chance.

That's how it's been described to me.

[Belle Hibiki]

I hereby decree that threads like this be referred to as "Obama Thread".

Obama Thread back in the hizouse!!!

PS: I don't see how this shows that they're doing terrible. Broke mothafuckas like me have been waiting for this for a long time, this is exciting news.

They're doing terrible because they have to expand to "broke mothafuckas" like you. They were already taking a pretty hefty loss on every system sold (which isn't unusual, but in Sony's case it was really big), and now that gap is going to be even larger. If they were really doing fine, they'd just keep selling at their old price than try to expand into the 360 price range. They certainly don't have enough base to really commit to that kind of aggressive expansion, so this is probably just about the fact that they're not selling enough systems and they NEED money.

[Sol]

Point. Although I'd be curious to look at the relative prices between the iterations. It also doesn't really have competition. (Yes, there's 'that other' handheld thing, but they're so far apart in sales as to be laughable.)

The PSP is actually really successful in terms of hardware sales when NOT graded against the DS. It's moved a shade over 50 million units world wide, which is almost 20 million more sales then the 360 and only 2 million behind the Wii. The problem with the PSP is software, people bought the PSP but never invested in games. PSP games with "Monster Hunters" and "Grand Theft Auto" in the title have probably sold more copies then every other game on the entire system combined. Really, with such a big built in audience that's terrible.

Of course the DS though, that's a freaking beast! It just won't stop selling! Software and hardware, it trumps everything else this generation in terms of sales. It's even got a good shot at giving the PS2 some competition for all time console sales soon.

EDIT: None of this is at all relevant to the conversation of course. Just interesting tidbits.

[Jonathan Meer]

They're doing terrible because they have to expand to "broke mothafuckas" like you.

So, a reasonable business move, which attempts to increase one's market, is a sign of weakness?

[Belle Hibiki]

Whoa. The PS3 has never been hundreds of dollars more than the 360. At most it was a hundred more (if memory serves). Other times, fifty more.

You do remember when the PS3 was priced at like $700 just before release, right?

Then they trimmed it down to 600.

Then some more. And people were grumbling about the loss they were taking on every system.

Now they're doing this.

So you're pretty much wrong. PS3 has been priced hundreds of dollars more expensive in the past, but they realized quickly how insane that was when no one was buying their product. Just because they eventually got it down to within $100 of the 360 doesn't mean it was comfortable to do so - in fact, it was pretty brutal.

[Belle Hibiki]

So, a reasonable business move, which attempts to increase one's market, is a sign of weakness?

If you actually read the rest of my post, I gave my reasons why I think that, in this case, it's a sign of weakness. Expansion certainly isn't always a signal of one thing or another, and I think it's pretty disingenuous for you to paint what I said as such.