[Mini-Saga]Black Dawn: Discussion

[Alexander Trafford]

Listen, we're on the same damned page. This is what the hell is happening. Finish your fucking mission and either wait, or leave. If people are getting bored (i've only heard this complaing from Mal, since everyone else seems to be going at their own pace), then you can either extend the quest you've been given or leave. Each of these quests have a purpose, an important one. We're not going to change the plans or the direction of the saga because some people think they will lose interest if this doesn't move on. Everyone is getting pretty far into their assignments. When you finish, i will update you saying that your mission is completed and you will be escorted back to the hotel. You can either wait for everyone else to finish, RPing around the lobby (character development, etcetera), or you can leave the saga.

I knew that being IMed alot was an integral part of running a mini saga, but we three did not anticipate that people would be telling us "too bad, this is what we're doing" or things like "You're not staff, you can't control the story." Guess what, we do. If you have a problem with it, then kindly dismiss yourself. This is getting annoying. The missions are pretty open, and, in my opinion, pretty enjoyable and fitting for each character. I'm sorry if you think it is boring, but i've also recieved alot of compliments.

That is all. With that, everyone continue to complete your missions. After which the next phase will begin, which will be more quickly paced.

[Mal Nova]

Same page my ass. You might be now but not even 24 hours ago you weren't

I can remember Alex saying if we finish earlier then everyone else, we have to wait. I can remember him just telling me not much long ago that this section is taking to long.

Cain happened to say as soon as we finished we'd get another mission, I had to tell him Alex's statement on that. And Cain stated that this was suppose to be long. -_-

Back earlier if I asked BBJ anything or he suggested something, it all fell back on Alex.

So in other words... Basically it's what Alex says... goes

And if anyone brought up that you aren't staff, it involves the fact of being threatened to have our characters killed if we knocked out one of the Team Members for him to be picked up later on and interrogated.

Fuck! Alex came to me last week and said if we tried to kill Mr. Clean(The bald bastard in the suit) He'd kill us. I had no intentions of it and didn't know where it came from.

A few hours later Addonexus wanted to or was building annoyance for him in an RP lol.

Shit, Alex told me this job was to be difficult and expected me to use Retane, but after being told so many people just assumed I was going to use him, I stopped unless I see it significant for my character.

My main issues, are that everyone thinks we are rushing.. and we really aren't. I am a decently fast RPer and Addonexus is just rapid fast. We are enjoying ourselves I believe and I'm accomplishing what I joined for. I'm where I want to be when having fun writing with someone else and I found someone that can be my 'Tapion'(Someone I can roll off of and vice versa) if we can fully get on the same page.

I, in no means mean to offend you, Alex, Cain or BBJ, but you have to see my point as at least Alex does in a sense, as he just told me if he could continue to update us he would.

I still think my compromise is possible... I think Mechanically I can split the mission up into two, and just continue with what my idea was... It'd be the same mission... Saga wise.. but mechanically... it wouldn't.



Oh! On a side note of being on the same page: It looked to me that OOC and IC that Cain was aiming for a secondary mission in his posts.

[Vad]

Same page my ass. You might be now but not even 24 hours ago you weren't

I can remember Alex saying if we finish earlier then everyone else, we have to wait. I can remember him just telling me not much long ago that this section is taking to long.

Cain happened to say as soon as we finished we'd get another mission, I had to tell him Alex's statement on that. And Cain stated that this was suppose to be long. -_-

Back earlier if I asked BBJ anything or he suggested something, it all fell back on Alex.

Quit bitching about how it's run and participate accordingly. You aren't running it, don't worry about what they're thinking. Stop now.

So in other words... Basically it's what Alex says... goes

If they state they're working together they are and I know for a fact they are. End of discussion.

And if anyone brought up that you aren't staff, it involves the fact of being threatened to have our characters killed if we knocked out one of the Team Members for him to be picked up later on and interrogated.

Fuck! Alex came to me last week and said if we tried to kill Mr. Clean(The bald bastard in the suit) He'd kill us. I had no intentions of it and didn't know where it came from.

Because you're bending the damn Saga to do your own whims. You're using the story to accomplish your own goals and do your own thing when that isn't the point. We were given a goal and we were expected to use improv only to complete said goal. Not to pass the time or do side missions. He told you you'd be killed because according to story lore (which I told you on AIM) the associates of Mr. Big are un-killabe. He confirmed this to me, because Vad nixxed his driver from the picture and I immediately apologized. I had no idea, now I do. And I'm telling you.

A few hours later Addonexus wanted to or was building annoyance for him in an RP lol.

Shit, Alex told me this job was to be difficult and expected me to use Retane, but after being told so many people just assumed I was going to use him, I stopped unless I see it significant for my character.

My main issues, are that everyone thinks we are rushing.. and we really aren't. I am a decently fast RPer and Addonexus is just rapid fast. We are enjoying ourselves I believe and I'm accomplishing what I joined for. I'm where I want to be when having fun writing with someone else and I found someone that can be my 'Tapion'(Someone I can roll off of and vice versa) if we can fully get on the same page.

Again, you're bending the saga to compensate for your speed. We personally don't care how fast of an RPer you are. We all could care less. Just because you finish early does not warrant special treatment and a whole new aspect just for you. Get over yourself and it.

I, in no means mean to offend you, Alex, Cain or BBJ, but you have to see my point as at least Alex does in a sense, as he just told me if he could continue to update us he would.

I still think my compromise is possible... I think Mechanically I can split the mission up into two, and just continue with what my idea was... It'd be the same mission... Saga wise.. but mechanically... it wouldn't.

Yes. Yes. We see your point of view. You need something to do. Still doesn't mean they have to oblige you. You can complain constructively, but if you cross the line and start throwing insults and flaming like you did to me earlier in the week you'll have your ass handed to you. This side story idea you two have, from what I've heard, is not going to work. So drop it.

Oh! On a side note of being on the same page: It looked to me that OOC and IC that Cain was aiming for a secondary mission in his posts.

I don't know. I haven't seen anything probably because I haven't read his recent post, but this isn't about Cain is it?

[Mal Nova]

Nvm.. you arent worth it

[Kazuya]

Let's just drop it and get back on topic, guys. kthxbi /ninjaout

[Sage]

I want to address this to everyone.

The three saga runners are not staff, but I can assure you absolutely, that as far as this saga is concerned, they have the same power any staffer does concerning the saga.

Any action they decide to take, up to and including removing someone from the saga for damaging behavior, is something I will fully back. The only difference between the three running the saga and myself, is that they have to ask us to kill or remove someone. And while I would be disinclined to kill off a character for no reason, I wouldn't have a problem removing one for causing trouble.

Ultimately, this is their saga and we're their clients, so to speak. This is no different than if Reb (or whoever) was running the saga.

[Psyren]

Ok time for me to speak for myself. Let me go about this in order and as nicely as possible.

Cain as for what you said about me stabbing at jaxx. I always tease jaxx and he does so at me as well its all in good fun. If YOU took it as stabbing thats your own personal problem. And JAxx on a note I was not stabbing at you I was just teaseing you I know you have alot on your plate and if i came off that way I apologize but I would rather you come to me than Cain decide to take the matter in his own hands if i come off that way. I would rather nip it in the bud before it becomes such a blown up mess.


Now what mal says and does are his own buissness not mine. Im trying to have fun, I dont like receiveing im's full of he said she said bull. I appreciate that alex came to me in a civil manner asking me about stuff before anyone blew up and I informed him last night that any ideas i have during saga i will run by him before i did it to ensure that nothing was lost in trasnlation. End story I wont be takeing any liberties in the saga what so ever.

Now I apologize that I was under the impression that we were given a mission and told basically that we can finish it how we see fit my bad i apologize and i will correct it. My apologies.


Now alex I have never came to you even once saying that i was gonna do something no matter what you said, I know you didnt say that i did but I just wanna insert this for future reference. The only thing i said was in retaliation to you saying that if i do something to mr cleans son (Mind you his son I created for my own purposes) that you would rp mr clean killing my character in which i responded by saying i dont beleive you can kill my character because the rules state that my permission must be asked before my character is killed. So many times ive seen admins and mods in other areas say the same thing mainly in the custom technique thread that a character cant be killed instantly , or injured severely without their permission i took that as meaning a person cant dictate who dies unless the characters creator says its alright (Not counting a deathmatch). Im sorry that my idea on that was wrong and I have since been corrected by you that you can infact kill my character on your own whim if you decide that my character is doing something to harm your saga. Note you said that staff gave you permission as they did juno in his saga to kill off a players character. Honestly I beleive this to be a bit harsh for something that can simply be edited or deleted. I havent ever really seen a case where a character was killed off because someone felt that they were causing damage to a saga when the characters owner can smply be asked to remove himself from the saga. Again you get your information from different areas that i do. I apologize yet again and understand now that the staff said you can do as you please as far as killing off a character cuz you did in fact say that you would not hesitate to kill a players character off using a npc..


The only reason i was upset over this was because I created Mr. Cleans son and as his creator i thought i had the god given creative right to do with the temporary npc as i pleased. But yet again and i was corrected.

Point of all this, I needed to vent my own frustrations and I apologize if anything came off harsh, I deeply respect you alex, I mean comeon your the main reason i came to chubbs and the main reason i returned, so i apologize for any liberties i took or anything that went to far. I will report to you on any of my ideas that i am most certainly unsure of to ensure that again nothing is lost in translation or hear say. Thank you kindly for allowing my to participate in your saga. And Mal you honestly need to cool it bud and come to the same realization i did last night, They created this saga for us to have fun it is their brain child, If i were in their position I would be upset as well that someone was doing anything like had been doing/planning. Again apologies apologies.

And on a last note, Alex if you at anypoint feel that I need to leave the saga come to me personally tell me why i need to leave and I shall do so. Thank you kindly for your time.

[Sage]

Yes. A saga runner can usually (within reason) kill a character if the situation warrants it. Obviously staff approval is needed, but a saga death is the one situation where the player does not have control over whether he/she lives or dies. This isn't a threat; I'm not saying anyone's going to die.

However, now that you mention it, it might be wise to add a 'saga clause' to the rules for death to make it absolutely clear, Addon.

[Mal Nova]

I have the RP I want started.... and is enough words for it to be posted.. I ewill try to post something for my Partner to post against

EDIT: I ask Kaz to post to drop it and another staffer just has to put their nose in it... heh...

[Psyren]

That would be wise to do sage. I mean honestly, There needs to be a clause warning players of this. It would help to put down any future uproars over the subject because there would in fact be a legitamate rule reguarding it. But you also would need to include that their needs to be a jusifiable reason as to why the character needs to be killed off. Not just that the saga runners can kill you on a whim because they feel like it as I was told last night in a nice way. I was never told their had to be staff approval only that if did something to my npc i created that iwould be killed off no questions asked.

[Jack]

I was joking about killing your character off, if that's what we're talking about now.

[Psyren]

No Jaxx I knew you were joking apparently Cain beleives I was takeing a stabb at you for some reason or another even you more than likely knew this wasent the case. And what I was reffering to about me being killed off was mine and alex's conversastion last night where he told me that he would not hesitate to kill my character using his npc mr clean if i did anything to mr cleans son who is a npc that I myself created. Because the staff apparently gave him permission to do so without having to ask. It's had me rather distraught honestly. And I have a feeling im gonna be getting a few angry replies over all this mess. lol

[Mal Nova]

THis is not a STAFF RUN SAGA.... It's a Personal Saga.. IN essence...

We ONLY receive additional rewards from staff.... upon posting in the Update forum...

I've went and apologized to four people already and such... and I asked an admin of an idea of my mine... I havent hidden it from no one.

I will tell you know that if someone can kill my character with ease.... in a personal SAGA.. or non staff run saga, then it SHOULD have been posted first and formost.

Not threats afterwards.

We only started the idea so that it was a gurantee that Addonexus would get the job ranked towards his thing....

And we aren't actually defined as Bullshit lawful characters....

I made a compromise with... ALex last night... just for my partners sake...

I actually went to an Admin to ask a question about splitting a job into two parts...

If Addonexus and I can write decently enough and such... and have fun writing and have plans or goals of reaching rank 2 at least... why shouldn't we be allowed to?

I mean why not try to reach rank two then just have fun and go forth slowly? Heh Yeah...

[Mal Nova]

BBJ: How strong is Retane?
Me: Usual unless I need be different
BBJ: He;s too STRONG!!!!!!

Heh

all of a sudden even if Retane and three pothers showed up..as I have their permission... all of a sudden... Bigg and company are ULTIMATE STRONG...

That makes me look forward to answer why are we there? Lets suck as do the heavy work...

I have a reason...

But I dont care.. I write... and thats my job... not to argue...

[Kaden]

I knew that being IMed alot was an integral part of running a mini saga, but we three did not anticipate that people would be telling us "too bad, this is what we're doing" or things like "You're not staff, you can't control the story."

Pretty awesome, huh? If it helps any, people often say the same shit even if you are staff.

[Orion]

The three saga runners are not staff, but I can assure you absolutely, that as far as this saga is concerned, they have the same power any staffer does concerning the saga.

THis is not a STAFF RUN SAGA.... It's a Personal Saga.. IN essence...

Wow. Just wow. Learn to read what staff say before you start deciding what things are like "in essence".

These people are going out of their way to provide an incentive for you to roleplay. They don't get paid for this. It's extra work they could be focusing elsewhere. If you don't like the way it's being handled, then you should piss off and go write in your own little corner.

all of a sudden even if Retane and three pothers showed up..as I have their permission... all of a sudden... Bigg and company are ULTIMATE STRONG...

That makes me look forward to answer why are we there? Lets suck as do the heavy work...

But I dont care.. I write... and thats my job... not to argue...

If you're going to contradict yourself, don't do it in the same thread.

[Alexander Trafford]

Mal. This is what happened. I told you Mr. Clean, as you call him, had the ability to kill your characters if you messed with his son, which it would make sense IC he would defend his son. The only reason i said this was to deter you two from trying to make an entire second quest. Each and every quest has an integral part in the whole, and we can't just fix and adjust that because you RP quickly, i'm not about to alter everything just for you.

Then, in response, you mentioned that you were sure Retane could kill Mr. Clean, clearly you were missing the point and just being ridiculous. So, i the said that Mr. Big could just as easily kill Retane, in order to make the same point, to deter you from doing something i'd asked you forty five times not to do. Then you mentioned how Mr. Big could not kill Retane, Corniss and Tapion. For some reason those three were brought up, even though you are not allowed to utilize other members old PC's without there stated permission. And then i just ignored you.

Point is, I used the term open-ended to mean that you could complete your mission in anyway you pleased. But asking for second missions, trying to kill and/or kidnap members of your own team, etcetera, were all things i figured you'd have the common sense not to do. I figured everyone would simply complete their objective and we'd move on with the story. I even figured everyone would enjoy the missions, since we tried to fit them to the characters so it'd help with their professions, and it'd help them develop characters. Silly me to think that.

To answer your second point, no, we are not doing a second mission. Cain RPed our characters getting side tracked, since we gave ourself the easiest mission in order that we could focus our attention on reading every RP and tending to the saga. It is not a second mission but merely a digression during the first, something you could have done too had you not but in such a rush to finish your mission.

This is getting to be a headache, and it's funny, because i don't have any idea what the real fuss is about? A misunderstanding about the word 'open-ended'? Is that it? From what i can tell, most people are enjoying RPing with someone new in a mission that suits their character, and i hope that is true.

So, with that, can we all just stop arguing about this, hmm? Perhaps we can go back to RPing the missions? And then... dun, dun dun, we move on!

[Alexander Trafford]

Post up, i was rushed and the quality isn't what i wanted it to be. Regardless, i got one up. Cain, feel free to continue. I tried to get us out of the digression and into the direction of the mission.

[Jack]

Alright homies, here is how it is going to go down.

We will be progressing the story to the next stage no later than next Saturday (September 12), or when everyone has finished their missions, whichever comes first. We ask that you pace yourselves accordingly, as finishing your missions now are an important part of the next stage.

If you finish early, you can RP doing shit in the hotel, like banging a hooker or shooting some hoops or swimming or watching television or exterminating rodents or whatever. We don't really care. Just don't blow up the hotel, try to kill Mr. Big, or otherwise cause some stupid trouble that would only deter us from what we had planned.

[Shou]

lol Wtf happened in here..?

Eitherwho,
Posted. Kinda rushed, but it should push us towards taking out the 5 Vad. Just let me know when you want to get back to the hotel so that we can pace accordingly, because my time was being hijacked IRL.

kthnx