[C&C] Sage

[Sage]

I don't at all feel bad for copying the people who've done this. Fuck the people who've come before me.

So, like, I have been legitimately curious as to how people have been receiving Sage and stuff, but pretty much too lazy to ask, until I got yelled at to ask in my visitor messages. =x

Very interested to know what y'all think about Sage as a character and how she's been developing, and where I should focus on improvements and stuff.

[Jesper]

I'll start by saying that Sage getting drunk in FoF3 and gambling in the casino with Sophia is probably my favorite moment in the entire saga. Your writing is mostly spot-on, like I've told you before, and your unique style is something that I can easily recognize. But that's not the kind of stuff that you wanted out of this thread, probably, so I'll skip that jargon.

I greatly enjoy your character. Her bashfulness is almost endearing in a way, and her drug addiction is an interesting twist on the character idea. In particular, though, your insight to her childhood is what I think is fascinating. I always look forward to reading the little flashbacks to her dealings with Zena or her parents, and it's cool how different she was as a child. So it gives me something to look forward to, because while I know that something horrible happened to make her the way she is, I don't know exactly what happened.

However, writing Sage is pretty straightforward once you get used to it. She's incredibly shy and doesn't trust anyone. She also has a strong moral compass, and absolutely refuses to kill anyone or anything. She would also probably feel bad about hurting, like, a squirrel. That's all well and good, and it adds to character depth, but it seems like you play it safe too often.

You're a great storyteller, but it seems like everything in your stories is dynamic except for Sage. This is also the problem I have with shows like Monk, where the antics of the main character defines him and sometimes are greatly enjoyable, but it also becomes easy to predict. In Monk's case, he's an insatiable neat freak and is afraid of any and all germs, so when something happens, I find myself thinking "Uh oh, Monk's not going to like that" and I end up predicting a lot of things that happen. I suppose that I'm just impatient, but nobody expects Monk to be the way he is forever.

However, you've already started to answer that concern by roleplaying with other people. Some people writing a character like yours would just stay in the shell of familiarity, only interacting with familiar characters, but by roleplaying with Vad, you've introduced her to completely different environments. All I can say is keep doing that, because I think it really adds to your character.

All-in-all, you have one of the more interesting characters on the site, and as long as you continue to take risks, that's a trend that's likely to continue.

[Cain]

On the most recent saga post:

Sage is beautiful. Maybe in the sense of A Beautiful Mind, but perhaps more beautiful because of that. She's having so much trouble controlling the situation, and she reminds me of the girl from End of Days who might even hallucinate once in a while. I can easily imagine her suckling on a Valium tit. Big's influence has created a wonderful paranoia. She's beautifully F.I.N.E., which makes me wonder if she's cracked before or may soon.

Fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and emotionally unstable. A salute and a rock on to you, wonderful writer.

[Kaden]

I totally haven't forgotten about this, by the way. I've just had a weird week.

[Kaden]

Just finished reading through Retribution. Aside from the stuff you've posted in Black Dawn, I'm pretty sure I've read most of your writing as Sage.

Which, really, leads me to my first point. You really annoy me. Yeah, I said it. Sage is such an irritating character sometimes. Like it would kill her to actually speak, y'know? Unfortunately for me, though, I really enjoy your writing. You manage to weave very interesting stories around this character that bugs me to no end. So... good job on that.

When I first started reading your Sage stuff, I thought to myself "he's going to end up having to make some serious changes to this character." It just seemed like Sage would be too limiting a character to play when you actually wanted to deal with other people. Her absurd introversion must make it hard to figure out how to deal with some characters.

To an extent, Sage has gone through some changes. My biggest association with Sage is your first thread, where she and Zena end up staying in a tiny room. Sage barely spoke to anyone other than her sister, and even then she wasn't exactly talkative. In the beginning of Retribution, she's actually going out of her way to speak to Vad. It was... jarring. I had to simply shrug and accept it.

Then I noticed other, smaller things. Sage questioning soldiers and actually talking to guards instead of going fetal when someone so much as looked at her for too long. (Slight exaggeration, but you catch my drift) I wasn't sure if those were conscious choices you made, or if you simply wrote it without having to think about whether or not it was "in character."

Sometimes I actually forget that Sage is a drug addict. I guess when I'm reading descriptions and such, I assume they're coming from the character's point of view. When they're clear, detailed, and well-written descriptions it makes me think that's how Sage see's things. Admittedly, though, I don't know exactly how valium would make things look.

It's definitely interesting to read Sage discovering her new powers. Having someone tell her, point-blank, she's telekinetic was just funny to me; it was a way more interesting way of writing it than having Sage just wake up and be able to move stuff with her mind.

Pairing with Vad was a smart idea. His character is... not someone I would expect Sage to hang around with. The scene where Vad's psycho-ness telepathic bleeds into Sage's mind was just cool. I imagine it was pretty fun to write, too. There's a lot you could do with that (if you haven't already).

Overall, I definitely like the direction you're taking Sage. Hmmm... maybe that's not the right phrase. As time goes on, it seems like Sage is slowly (ok... very slowly) regaining some of the traits that we see in her flashbacks. I definitely look forward to seeing where she ends up.

EDIT: If you're ever looking for someone else to use for pictures of Sage, btw, you might want to consider Hatsune Miku.

[Sage]

To an extent, Sage has gone through some changes. My biggest association with Sage is your first thread, where she and Zena end up staying in a tiny room. Sage barely spoke to anyone other than her sister, and even then she wasn't exactly talkative. In the beginning of Retribution, she's actually going out of her way to speak to Vad. It was... jarring. I had to simply shrug and accept it.

Aw. Well, I appreciate the honest criticism. I was hoping to make her transition from 'hopeless' to 'mostly hopeless' without raising any eyebrows. I guess I can't really fix that now, though. Still kind of disappointing.

But, yeah. To everyone who's offered a review; I very much appreciate it. I like seeing what works and what doesn't. And I especially like the criticism. Even if it is a disappointment, can't fix it if you don't know it's broken.

And, again, to everyone who's offered a review, and anyone else who might, I'll be reviewing you back (if you have a thread for it) if I haven't gotten to it already.

EDIT: @Kaden: She is irritating, isn't she? =D

And that thar piccy be a pretty good match for Sage.

[Vad]

Yo yo yo this Homie G coming from Ohio to bring you some C&C.

Alright. I like Sage as a character. You've got an ingenious way of writing her that just makes me...long to help her. Just embrace and tell her everything is going to be okay.

When writing for Vad? That was hard to overcome. I enjoy how she's a formidable opponent strength wise, but she's unable to control or even muster the courage to use it. Our time spent on Frost has actually progressed Vad, because I see it in the way he handles his thinking now.

Back on track here, I find her over analytical mind to be frustrating at times. I find that her view on harming things is annoying mostly. I just want to throttle that view and scream, "ITS OK IF YOU'RE TRYING TO BE KILLED."

Like Kaden noticed, I saw her coming out of the closet, so to speak, as we Roleplayed together. From her being completely useless in Central City to her healing him in tight situations. I also enjoyed that her naive mind didn't pick up on the fact that Vad would have died without her until after that first encounter on Frost(right? I might be getting confused. Point is she finally did.). She's grown a lot and I hope she continues to head in that direction.

I'd like to see her get to a point where she's able to function normally. Not necessarily her old self, but I'd like to see her stand up for herself. As you know I found that alternate reality Sage to be....yeah...I liked her. <3

I enjoyed Roleplaying with you, I think you have a fabulous character. I know I'm writing a lot more than I usually do, but I have more knowledge of her than I do other characters. *cough*

[Cain]

After the healing of Vad, Sage collapsed. I thought that was pretty cool since it was using her own life force to heal him. My main, and really only qualm is a moot one from some stand points; She doesn't talk much. This is pretty uncomfortable in retrospective, but that's not to say she's not a believable character. She's showing lots of symptoms of stress from a particular breakdown, which can lead to not talking. The thought patterns match up with that too. She's still injured from it, and I guess to talk more she'll have to get better (maybe get off anti-depressants; she's overmedicating emotional pain), or get over it, or get something. She's still a beautifully fleshed out character. *Salute*

[Sage]

Extraordinarily belated thank yous to Vad and Cain.

Jumpin on the bandwagon here.

So, now that DA is over, I am extremely curious to know what you guys think! How am I doing/how compelling is Sage/etc.

Give me a shout out! I'll even C&C you! ...If you ask, anyway.

[Vad]

Do me, I do you.

[Jesper]

You're starting to do exactly what I wanted you to do--you're making Sage less annoyingly timid and more rawrwtfawesome (or, in other words, more like what a normal person with super powers would be). This is a good thing in my book, obviously, as Sage was pretty predictable in the past. In DA, though, I couldn't predict what you would do next. The complexities of Sage's feelings towards Sol made things interesting, and it was one of the more interesting storylines in the saga in my opinion.

You're allowing the reader to dwell into Sage's past along with you by doing as many flashbacks as you do. It kind of bogs down posts at times (your post in the first part of the finale was, like, what: 75% flashback?), but I think the depth that you're constantly adding to your character makes it worth it and, ultimately, more rewarding. The reader will always remember important events more than the quality of a single post.

You haven't changed as a writer since I last gave you C&C, but I'll reiterate. Your writing is wonderfully stylized, and you have a knack for writing fiction. You really understand how to connect with your audience, and you (usually) effectively use flashbacks to give your posts almost a memoir kind of feeling. Your grammar is near-perfect, your vocabulary is top-notch, and I can almost always imagine the setting in which your posts take place. So...yeah. I guess you're pretty decent as a writer, you bastard. <3

Obviously, winning DA was a big step for you. You really showed some clutch writing, so to speak, and even the things you seemed to rush or the things you thought sucked were pretty enjoyable.

Um...I like the relationships that you've built with other characters. I definitely like the variety of characters that Sage interacts with (it would be boring if all Sage did was talk to Xenia). Ashe, for example, is kind of a touching relationship in a way, and I always greatly enjoyed all their interactions. Basically, keep it up, and don't be afraid to make connections with seemingly conflicting personalities, like you did with Vad.

You probably already know this, but it's best to pace yourself when making your transition with Sage. I know I rush developments all the time out of Sophia, but the transition I'm talking with Sage--changing from a traumatized, shy little girl into an assertive, confident young woman--is actually pretty legit, if that's what you're indeed going for. I think how well you make that transition will ultimately define your character, and how your character is viewed in the annals of Chubbs lore. Okay, that's a little overdramatic, but you get the picture. In any case, I'm really interested in seeing what's going to happen with the whole Sol/space prostitution thing leads.

So...yeah. Want to C&C me in return? I'M ASKING FOR IT.

EDIT: I'd like to know the same things that you wanted to know, more or less.

[Sage]

FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU-

Okay, Vad/Sophia. Kind of forgot.

I'll get to it, honest!

[Ander]

I can start by breaking down your writing first, and then I’ll move on to the character.

Your grammar is pretty solid; it’s been excellent ever since I first started reading your stuff. Your vocabulary is probably above average; you’re actually probably the only one who’s ever had to make me look something up, and that doesn’t happen to me too often anymore. Sophia called your style unique and I’d have to agree. It is very refined, and has an almost aristocratic feel to it sometimes. That might not be the best word to describe it, but it’s the closest thing that comes to mind of how to approximately define it. Intellectual, I guess is the way to put it, which is appealing to those who can appreciate that kind of thing, and I definitely do. Don’t get me wrong, though, you manage to do it without being dry, which is no small task; it is still enjoyable to read, and very clean. Your pacing is always measured and even, never too long, never too short, and you pay the right amount of attention to each thing that you need to address within the post, especially when it comes to responding to others. You also tend to alternate between character narrative and objective narrative, and you manage to do it seamlessly without being confusing. The proper emotion or point of view is always conveyed and you can tell whether it’s third party or first party. That’s something I do myself and it’s an approach I really like, if it can be pulled off correctly.

Them’s the pros, here’s the cons.

I’ll start off with something small, because I always have to have a nitpick for somebody, and it’s on a personal level. A few times, you’ve left off the “er” in “Ander,” and then it becomes “and,” without capitalization, and it actually took me a while to figure out that that’s what the mistake was, because I couldn’t understand the sentences where you did that. So, you know, there’s my “I’m a jerk” commentary. More seriously, though, I can always tell when you were either struggling with the material or uncomfortable with it, because it becomes apparent in weak spots in your posts. The writing doesn’t get sloppy, but your style gets more conservative with description and details, as in, you tend to gloss over parts you really didn’t want to write as quick as possible and don’t put any polish on. Improvement areas, I’d say to use more similes, and more imagery. Your imagery is awesome when you are writing about a profound moment for Sage’s feelings, when she uses her ice powers, a fight, or when you are describing a particular place. If you are not writing about one of those four things, your imagery kind of drops off a little bit.

Moving on to your character, I find it very difficult to come up with a complaint. I read some of the commentary above, and the most common one was that Sage is annoying as a character because she’s shy and predictable and what have you. I don’t personally necessarily find fault in predictability, because it means you are staying true to their design. If a character is easily provoked for example, then yes, you should expect them to lose their temper if somebody gets in their face. If they didn’t, it would ring false, now wouldn’t it? Sage reacts predictably, but it is realistic of the parameters of her character. A character being predictable and a character being stagnant in their development are two very different things in my book, and I wouldn’t say Sage falls victim to the latter, especially with all of her recent events. So, unless she ends up stuck running in place for a while, I don’t think you have a problem.

I think you picked a very appropriate pace to develop Sage, because of what happened to her, and because you had limited interactions with other characters beyond Xenia (whose presence stunted her need to blossom into anything more than what she was; i.e., if you have someone who protects you from the dangers of the world, why would you ever need to venture out into it on your own?). Vad was a great first step, though. I’m probably a little biased in this venture, though, since I played a part to her opening up. You are both developing and deviating from her original mold. And actually, her reactions are not entirely predictable, at least to me. There was one time in DA, and I can’t recall what it was specifically, but she was seeing Kaden in pain, and internally she’s wondering, “Maybe I should give him my Valium.” And that, to me, would not have been expected. Of course, ultimately she didn’t end up doing it, but just the monologue was good enough. Also, occasionally Sage has reacted the complete opposite of what I’d expected her to. Hitting Xenia, for instance. I’d have believed her to cow-tow.

As far as her being annoying, she’s really not. Her insecurities and social awkwardness are things that everyone worries about, but she takes it to a higher level than most. I think the difficulty in trying to role-play that (for other people), is that because she is so internal and she thinks more than she speaks or acts, people can feel kind of lost with that, or be unsure how to translate that from their own character’s perspective without metagaming your character too much (It is a huge pet peeve of mine when others take somebody else’s characters and start extensively writing their thoughts and feelings, especially in order to mold it to what they want to achieve for their own post. I’m not talking one or two sentences, I’m talking dedicating an entire huge paragraph or section to it.). It’s a difficult balance. But she is getting better, especially at advocating for herself.

I’m probably going to cut it off there, and give you some C&C later when your big changes have had time to settle in, because otherwise I’d just be giving you feedback on the stuff that is in the middle of shifting, or things that are no longer of relevance.