Questions about proposed changes

[Juno]

To address the comments about items = CL, see above.

Having a scouter, for example, should affect your ability to combat other people, am I right?

That example makes sense, yes, but does that include buying a ticket from one planet to another?

It just doesn't make sense to have to sift through purchases for ones that are actually applicable to combat potential.

[Kaden]

It just doesn't make sense to have to sift through purchases for ones that are actually applicable to combat potential.

It wouldn't be made difficult.

If it came to it we would simply have a section of "Combat Purchases" and a section of "Non-Combat Purchases." Only one would affect CL.

If it came to it. Regardless of how you feel about Meer, it's worth reading his analysis of the general Chubbs conversation. It's fairly accurate and exactly what you just did, Juno.

[Dehan]

Again I've tried reading through and make sense of things and it seems that it's more complicated than it should be. I dunno. I can't honestly say I'm going to critque everyone's rp if the need arrives...I barely read others rps while I was active and currently inactive; doubt I'll do it in the future. It does take time, I wouldn't be rewarded and I'm sure I would be biased. So I wouldn't put myself in a situation like that.

But my concern(and I am possibly the only one) is that things just seem so damn complicated. Blame it on lack of sleep, mentally sorting out mental stuff or just not understanding what's going on here discussion wise.

[Kaden]

But my concern(and I am possibly the only one) is that things just seem so damn complicated. Blame it on lack of sleep, mentally sorting out mental stuff or just not understanding what's going on here discussion wise.

What was in the opening post of this thread really isn't a complicated system. It might seem that way, but it has been neither written nor formatted for general understanding. It was a direct copy/paste of what I posted in the Staff Forum.

[Victoria]

I like the idea of combat items adding to CL and then there being non-combat items which wouldn't affect CL.

[Juno]

It wouldn't be made difficult.

If it came to it we would simply have a section of "Combat Purchases" and a section of "Non-Combat Purchases." Only one would affect CL.

If it came to it. Regardless of how you feel about Meer, it's worth reading his analysis of the general Chubbs conversation. It's fairly accurate and exactly what you just did, Juno.

Thank you for clarifying, nonetheless.

EDIT: I also agree with Victoria, this sounds like an idea I could get behind.

[Jarka]

I like the idea of combat items adding to CL and then there being non-combat items which wouldn't affect CL.

Agreed. Thanks for the clarification, Kaden.

[Vad]

I completely agree with Victoria. Having non-combat items contribute to CL is rather odd to me. Whereas if I buy a gladius (Roman sword. Which is what Trixie wields for CQC) I want it to increase my CL. On the other hand, Kaden's scouter example is perfect. I use Vad's as a Heads Up Display that can track targets like something out of an Abrams or F22.

[Sigfried Hunin]

I honestly think that the macro parts of the system are great. I bitched about what I had to bitch about in fight mechanics and now that's done.

I think that if we nit pick the system on the small things too much it will over complicate it. The more basic we can keep the math, the editing and the general bits and bobs the better. Does it all make perfect canon sense? Prolly not. It's not going to ever really unless we commit ourselves to something like that, but I don't think it's in the best interest of the writers to do so.

[Vad]

I think that if we nit pick the system on the small things too much it will over complicate it. The more basic we can keep the math, the editing and the general bits and bobs the better. Does it all make perfect canon sense? Prolly not. It's not going to ever really unless we commit ourselves to something like that, but I don't think it's in the best interest of the writers to do so.

I agree, but just be aware that the more you push toward the basic side of the spectrum the more possibility you have of cutting off certain things you can do with the system itself.

If that makes any sense.

[Belle Hibiki]

Putting how much Prestige a person gains in the hands of the community sounds like the worst fucking idea in the world.

Because I'm sure we'd all be totally honest, right.

[Jonathan Meer]

There will be bias, but there's enough diversity around here such that no one 'tone' will be overpowering, methinks.

Who here is presented as a god, beyond reproach? And who here is a dribbling cock? We can think of people of higher and lesser repute, but there's also an element of objectivity here. There've been some people in the past who I didn't much care for, but I was nevertheless able to evaluate their writing.

That said, Staff will be there along the way to make sure things go smoothly; make sure one person isn't getting over-endowed, while another is getting under-endowed. No, it won't be perfect. But I think better of Chubbs as a whole to suppose it'll be a colossal failure. I'm expecting a roaring success.

At any rate, it's better than our current system, which is blind to writing ability and effort, and is interested only in the brute number of characters, stringed together.

[Belle Hibiki]

I don't expect anyone to be underendowed. Judging from previous C&C threads, I wholeheartedly expect everyone to consistently score eight to ten out of ten... Even if they deserve a five or a six.

Because, let's face it, very few of us C&C someone that we like and want to be mean. Even when you tell your friends to be brutally honest, they're still your friends, and all the logic in the world ("well if they really are your friends they should feel comfortable giving honest feedback") doesn't always change that.

Is the answer, then, to try and get people not in your clique to review you? Maybe, but I can still easily see THAT dissolving into a situation of "you scratch my back, I scratch yours"; an endless circle-jerk that is hard to outright stop, because most of the people here are at least reasonably competent, and it's very hard to sling down the Staff Hammer on a 6/10 post voted to 8/10 (probably common) than it would be a 2/10 voted to the same. The latter would be easy, the former would probably piss a lot of people off.

And the bias wouldn't be that bad? We have people here who have posted shittily in sagas and been given a pass over people that were clearly writing better for the explicitly stated reason that the saga runner was 'counting on the winner to write better in the future' because of the writing that they had done in previous rounds (which should have had no bearing). Admittedly, I think that was Burter, but the bigger concern (for me) was that no one seemed bothered by that, because they knew the winner, and how he 'normally' posted, and didn't want to see his feelings hurt. If people are fine with results of competition sagas being manipulated to that degree by bias, I can only imagine what will pass for C&C.

Then there's the issue of the spectrum. Most of us will/should be on that higher end of the rewards spectrum, because the application process weeds out those who would actually write terribly. We'd all be concentrated near the top (both from our writing and inflation from friendly judges). Is the answer, then, to form 'competent' as the 'bottom' rank of rewards? Do we really want to give people 'shit' rewards for writing fine? But is the alternative of nearly EVERYONE getting good stuff better?

I can see the attraction of it, though. Getting people more interconnected is a powerfully attractive idea. We've too often been in bubbles over the last two years, and I know barely anything about anyone aside from Kaden - and that's because I played with him.

At any rate, it's better than our current system, which is blind to writing ability and effort, and is interested only in the brute number of characters, stringed together.

/angryhat. I apologize in advance.

I am fucking tired of people snidely referencing the current system and insinuating that it is in some way a failure because it only accounts for a # of characters in a post.

Open the Goddamn CA list, look at the top fucking entries, and tell me who's there.

[Piper Juunanagou]

Perhaps after providing overall feedback, people could submit their final scores (for the purpose of prestige accumulation) of someone's work in private to the staff member over-seeing the grading of the thread? That way, y'know, no one has to get their feelings hurt. (unless in your feedback post you call them a douche or something >_> )

[Kaden]

You just start swearing for the sake of emphasis, Belle, it sounds like you're actively trying to be mean to people.

=(

[Belle Hibiki]

You just start swearing for the sake of emphasis, Belle, it sounds like you're actively trying to be mean to people.

=(

A little of column a, a little of column b~
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Kaden]

I don't know why I didn't think to post this earlier, but I want to give mad props to Jarka. Her post earlier was one of the most constructive things that's been posted in any of these threads.

She saw something that appeared to be a problem and immediately followed with a solution that seemed reasonable for her. That's out-fucking-standing and it should be said.

[Belle Hibiki]

God the Cape is in like six minutes and I don't want to go.

And I'll probably weigh in on other stuff later.

But it just dawned on me, something that I said earlier: about how I knew Kaden. Because I had to play with him for a personal saga.

Maybe we're all going about it backwards. Maybe we shouldn't make people feel like they HAVE to read other people's work to do the C&C thing - maybe we should make them WANT to.

Give people REWARDS for playing as groups, just like the old quests did. More prestige, more xp, more whatever you decide to use. Maybe leave the rewards open for things like the massive ship that Civil Unrest got for Red Stallions.

An appropriately sized reward for group effort. Large enough to make it oh so delicious, not enough to be completely game breaking.

[Josh]

I still fail to see any response to how this will work out. CL doesn't take into account the fact that Power Level is what the stat system is based on, it's a pleasant thought that we can have people who have a lot of techniques and a low power levels, but it lacks any consistency IC and OOC.

We have very strict rules on the techniques that are allowed on the RPG, so as not to overpower characters unfairly. But the internal logic of the RPG is broken if we allow someone with a lower power level to win against someone who's got a higher power level simply because they have the same CL.

Simply knowing a variety of different and advanced techniques doesn't matter if you lack the sufficient power to make them useful. An example of this is Tenshinhan using the Shin Kikohou on 2nd Form Cell, despite it being incredibly powerful and broken(It used his Soul not Ki) it didn't even harm Cell it just annoyed him until Tenshinhan was almost dead.

What use is Kienzan if you're too slow to even notice that your opponent has his fist in your chest.

We simply don't allow broken techniques on the RPG, especially ones that would allow this difference in power to not matter. We're not gonna let people use "Magic" like Babidi who could take over anyones mind regardless as long as they were evil- because it's god modding.

Even if we did allow that, it still wouldn't help. Because then the high PL characters would simply purchase one broken technique and rape the crap out of people with their high power level and broken technique.

What point is there to PL in this new system anyway, if we're going to ignore the power discrepancy between characters in favor of techniques and CL then it should be dropped as well as stats. Then you'd only have CL, Techniques, and Items.

[Psyren]

God the Cape is in like six minutes and I don't want to go.

And I'll probably weigh in on other stuff later.

But it just dawned on me, something that I said earlier: about how I knew Kaden. Because I had to play with him for a personal saga.

Maybe we're all going about it backwards. Maybe we shouldn't make people feel like they HAVE to read other people's work to do the C&C thing - maybe we should make them WANT to.

Give people REWARDS for playing as groups, just like the old quests did. More prestige, more xp, more whatever you decide to use. Maybe leave the rewards open for things like the massive ship that Civil Unrest got for Red Stallions.

An appropriately sized reward for group effort. Large enough to make it oh so delicious, not enough to be completely game breaking.

Absolutely amazing idea.