Afterlife Overhaul?

[Vad]

Original Idea:

One of the topics that has been coming up as of late is death and the fact that the afterlife is extremely lack-luster and boring. It was also mentioned that it's an activity killer and I'm inclined to agree, that in its' current form, it is. I created a proposal for the overhaul and we, the staff, want to see what you the members think of it.

To start I propose that we create a currency (meaning money in this case) that is unique to the Afterlife and the Afterlife only. There would be two types of this currency. Life Currency and Death Currency. The obvious difference being that one you would earn in Heaven and one you'd earn in Hell. They'd be combinable in purchasing things like resurrection.

The introduction of this currency opens up a whole new avenue of possibilities. I'd like to incorporate (for a start) quests that one can do in both realms, buying passage to Heaven and Hell (not King Kai's) as you desire, purchasing one week in the living realm on any planet you want (7 days), and the mighty resurrection. It should be noted that their will be quests that only award LC and ones that only award DC. Some might award portions of both.

For resurrection we'd introduce another form of currency called a Mark of Life or Medallion of Life. These can be bought for 2500 Life of Death Currency (at one per purchase) or you can complete difficult quests/quest chains to get a single one. I'm thinking the starting price for a total resurrection being 5 Marks/Medallion of Life.

We'd keep the Spiritual Dragonballs for the same purpose as they've had, but possibly allow the collector to wish for currency (maybe add a series of purchasable items exclusive to the afterlife? Even to each kind of currency) Going back to the idea of opening up movement between Heaven and Hell I think a onetime introductory quest should be required (varying in what needs to be done of course) to be able to purchase passage. The player could be awarded a medal using the achievement system in place now to represent completion and would be allowed to buy their way back and forth. If I haven't mentioned I'd like the price of travel to be 800 LC or DC. To make the process of resurrection a bit more bareable we could also award the player with a starting 250 when they die. It should also be noted that said player would lose all collected Afterlife Currency upon being resurrected (but would get the 250 upon the next death). So if you have 1600 left over after buying Marks and you have five and choose to resurrect, you'd lose it.

This is still a work in progress, but this is the general gist of what we'd like to do.

Discussed Changes or Addons (As of 28th of January):


Karma Points replace Life and Death Currency. Karma Points would be a single point system that would become positive or negative depending on where you quest (Heaven or Hell). Players could use these points in the shops in each location to buy items of varying degree's as well as their ressurection.

A weigh station to fix the possible scenario of wanting to switch locations in the Afterlife, but being too far into the opposite realms currency. (You have 400 Karma Points, but want to earn -1000. You now need to overcome that 400 you don't have).

Buff/Debuff system. It was mentioned various times among the first couple of pages. The prospect of making them purchasable was brought up later on. Trafford made a few example ones (boosting your CA by 5% for two battles).

[Dr. Cringle]

I like the idea of a little renovating of the afterlife, since way back when I was active as Android 15 I remember getting stuck in Heaven and being bored to tears. Only a couple people were up there with me, and there just wasn't much to it. As for portals to heaven/hell, I like that idea. For some added creativity, you could make said items like a token or something. For heaven, it could be a white pearl, that if you stomp on will make any doorway or stairway turn in to a direct access to Heaven. Perhaps for a Hell, it could be a black pearl you could swallow that would then drag you into the Earth.

As for terms of currency, not sure about Life/Death. Maybe like....pieces of Mana for Heaven and pieces of Obsidian for Hell?

[Vad]

I like the idea of a little renovating of the afterlife, since way back when I was active as Android 15 I remember getting stuck in Heaven and being bored to tears. Only a couple people were up there with me, and there just wasn't much to it. As for portals to heaven/hell, I like that idea. For some added creativity, you could make said items like a token or something. For heaven, it could be a white pearl, that if you stomp on will make any doorway or stairway turn in to a direct access to Heaven. Perhaps for a Hell, it could be a black pearl you could swallow that would then drag you into the Earth.

As for terms of currency, not sure about Life/Death. Maybe like....pieces of Mana for Heaven and pieces of Obsidian for Hell?

Certainly food for thought. I'd prefer to keep it a currency though. Maybe Obsidian Coins and Mana Tokens?

I have class at 6 so I won't be around until maybe 10:30. I'll check back here then. =D

[Victoria]

Yes make it a currency term. I like those ideas there, Tokens and Coins.

I'm thinking that to make doorway's to Heaven/Hell would be something to work for, and gain, if you do end up there. This way you could go back via said item/reward to help a friend who might die later on, or do things there you might want to work for.

More abilities would be sweet.

[Juno]

I would like to stress my excessive approval for quests in the after-life. As someone who likes a point to jump off of, I think this would be absolutely wonderlicious.

[Jonathan Meer]

There'll be Quests everywhere, not just the Afterlife.

And those Quests will be arriving shortly.

[Vad]

There'll be Quests everywhere, not just the Afterlife.

And those Quests will be arriving shortly.

Yes, I forgot to mention that I'll be incorporating the quest system once it's released.

(waiting for class to start)

[Vad]

Yes make it a currency term. I like those ideas there, Tokens and Coins.

I'm thinking that to make doorway's to Heaven/Hell would be something to work for, and gain, if you do end up there. This way you could go back via said item/reward to help a friend who might die later on, or do things there you might want to work for.

More abilities would be sweet.

The doorway idea is interesting. I like it.

I would like to stress my excessive approval for quests in the after-life. As someone who likes a point to jump off of, I think this would be absolutely wonderlicious.

I agree. That's what we're trying to do for members.

[Katelyn Ross]

This may be an unanswerable question, but, do we have an approximation as to when this new "quest system" will be enacted?

[Kaden]

I don't like the Afterlife, to be honest. I think the only reason we have it, at all, is because it was in the show.

I'd prefer to simply get rid of... I want to say "finality of it," but that's not the right word. It serves no purpose.

Having your character die is a punishment only in that there's nothing to do/no one to RP with in the Afterlife. We've seen countless members simply fall into inactivity once they die and that's... retarded.

As a plot device, death absolutely serves a purpose and, along with that, the Afterlife can, too, but I don't think that purpose should be forced upon the player. Sophia is actually a really good example. For ending up third place in Friend or Foe the character was killed. That was, probably, at the height of activity for that character (Soph's free to correct me on this if I'm wrong) and after that, while he did manage to complete the KK quests, it was a long, arduous process.

I think the de/buff system that Meer has in his saga could be incorporated into the RPG as a replacement for death. If someone "die" in a saga, for example, they receive a "-10% CA level" (or some equivalent for CA) debuff. The debuff either lasts for a specified time period or the player pays to have it removed.

Secluding members to the afterlife because of a completely subjective and, potentially, arbitrary decision does not seem like a good idea to me.

Something I mentioned somewhere (might have been on Mumble or AIM, don't remember, honestly) was that I wanted to propose a "revolving door" policy for the Afterlife along with any other changes. The idea being that someone could die, yeah, but the timing of their revival would be up to them; so, should they choose to RP in the Afterlife, they would be free to, but they wouldn't be tied to it. Obviously, the problem with that is a complete lack of risk in any endeavor. Hence the suggestion of debuffs instead.

[Katelyn Ross]

Would the revolving door system include giving a person the option to choose how/when they die, as well? Like, if it was for storyline purposes, they could kill off their character.

[Kaden]

Iunno.

That, like, three sentences is the most fleshed out that idea ever was. Like I said, it completely removed any sense of risk or actual danger, so I wasn't going to actually propose that until I came up with a satisfactory answer to that problem.

EDIT: Additionally, the idea of people just waltzing in and out of the Afterlife all willy-nilly is, let's face it, dumb.

[Vad]

I don't like the Afterlife, to be honest. I think the only reason we have it, at all, is because it was in the show.

I'd prefer to simply get rid of... I want to say "finality of it," but that's not the right word. It serves no purpose.

Having your character die is a punishment only in that there's nothing to do/no one to RP with in the Afterlife. We've seen countless members simply fall into inactivity once they die and that's... retarded.

As a plot device, death absolutely serves a purpose and, along with that, the Afterlife can, too, but I don't think that purpose should be forced upon the player. Sophia is actually a really good example. For ending up third place in Friend or Foe the character was killed. That was, probably, at the height of activity for that character (Soph's free to correct me on this if I'm wrong) and after that, while he did manage to complete the KK quests, it was a long, arduous process.

I think the de/buff system that Meer has in his saga could be incorporated into the RPG as a replacement for death. If someone "die" in a saga, for example, they receive a "-10% CA level" (or some equivalent for CA) debuff. The debuff either lasts for a specified time period or the player pays to have it removed.

Secluding members to the afterlife because of a completely subjective and, potentially, arbitrary decision does not seem like a good idea to me.

Something I mentioned somewhere (might have been on Mumble or AIM, don't remember, honestly) was that I wanted to propose a "revolving door" policy for the Afterlife along with any other changes. The idea being that someone could die, yeah, but the timing of their revival would be up to them; so, should they choose to RP in the Afterlife, they would be free to, but they wouldn't be tied to it. Obviously, the problem with that is a complete lack of risk in any endeavor. Hence the suggestion of debuffs instead.

See I disagree with the idea of wanting to remove it. I'll expand on it later, but I think we should try and fix the problem instead of just removing it all together. It's been a part of the Chubbs universe for a long time and I'd like to see it not be labled like the infidel it seems to have been branded.

[Sophia]

As a plot device, death absolutely serves a purpose and, along with that, the Afterlife can, too, but I don't think that purpose should be forced upon the player. Sophia is actually a really good example. For ending up third place in Friend or Foe the character was killed. That was, probably, at the height of activity for that character (Soph's free to correct me on this if I'm wrong) and after that, while he did manage to complete the KK quests, it was a long, arduous process.

Just...wanted to say that I have absolutely nothing to correct you on.

[Jonathan Meer]

There should be a significant effect to dying.

It shouldn't just be a 'oh hey, no prob, I'm out' type affair.

Debuffs seems a sensible way to work with it.

EDIT: Might be reasonable to leave that up to the community, as per grading. If someone wants to just skip out of the afterlife with no roleplaying at all, that incurs a hefty debuff. If someone wants to leave the afterlife after a significant amount of activity there, the debuff may be lesser, or non-existent.

[Kaden]

See I disagree with the idea of wanting to remove it. I'll expand on it later, but I think we should try and fix the problem instead of just removing it all together. It's been a part of the Chubbs universe for a long time and I'd like to see it not be labled like the infidel it seems to have been branded.

I guess I could have been more specific.

I meant Afterlife should be removed as a game mechanic. As I said before, the Afterlife can absolutely serve a very real and reasonable purpose as a plot device, but its never felt like more than that, to me (and this is coming from someone who was sent their three times over the course of the RPG).

Talking about adding currencies tied to quests tied to achievements tied to revivals feels like adding unnecessary levels of complication to something that would actually serve a better purpose if it (once again, "it" meaning the mechanic of "death" or risk, not the Afterlife as a RolePlaying concept) were simplified instead.

EDIT: I wish I hadn't mentioned anything at all about that stupid "revolving door" thing. =(

[Vad]

Talking about adding currencies tied to quests tied to achievements tied to revivals feels like adding unnecessary levels of complication to something that would actually serve a better purpose if it (once again, "it" meaning the mechanic of "death" or risk, not the Afterlife as a RolePlaying concept) were simplified instead.

I disagree. It may seem complicated, but it really isn't. Again I'll elaborate when I get home, but it seems like the attitude everyone seems to have is that "if it causes pain or discomfort I don't like it."


EDIT: Not to single you out, Kaden, but that's all I'm getting from the quoted part is that because it would require a bit of explanation and learning we shouldn't use it and deem it too complicated.
What kind of mentality is that?

[Tyr]

Dat revolving door. Loving the debuff suggestion, it also seems somewhat fitting considering that after a while in DBZ, the strongest warriors could simply borrow time if powerful enough to go down to Earth. I mean, Goku just always went back by his own accord, he never actually got forced. He was probably just a nice person and too much of a BAMF to get forced back. It would make sense that the Afterlife would have evolved, in particular if it could be paid off with something. It could make sense if it was XP, at least for Hell.

"I will return you to the world of the living, but only if you give me a taste of what I grant you".

I think the debuff should be harsher and harsher as time goes on though. Whoever controls those places must eventually get tired of seeing the same face dying over and over again.

[Kaden]

I disagree. It may seem complicated, but it really isn't. Again I'll elaborate when I get home, but it seems like the attitude everyone seems to have is that "if it causes pain or discomfort I don't like it."

I understand the idea completely. Further explanation is unnecessary for me to grasp the governing concepts. I promise.

Again, however, it is a relatively more complex system. Look at what you proposed (additional currencies, quests to obtain currencies, achievements awarded based on currency spent, revivals granted based on achievements) and then look at what I posted (player gets a debuff, they can pay to remove it if it doesn't come off on its own) and tell that one isn't more complex than the other. That was my point.

Your over generalization of my post is borderline insulting. My "mentality" is "do what's best for the RPG." Often times that means utilizing simplified systems in order to make things easier for everyone (new members, old members, staff members, etc.). That is not always the case, certainly, but to presume I would say "shut it down" just because it's a complex idea is... well... that's never been how I operate and you should know that by now. If you insist on boiling my posts down to the most negative over-simplification you can, then I won't further waste my time.

I never once said you shouldn't do it because it seems complicated. I never once said that complex ideas or system shouldn't be used in the RPG. I said it feels like manufactured complexity to force meaning onto a concept that doesn't actually need it. That says nothing about my "mentality" outside of a specific opinion about a specific suggestion.

If you don't like my idea, if no one does, it never has to be spoken of again. That's totally fine with me. You asked to hear what people thought of your proposal in the opening post of this thread. If that isn't what you meant, then I suggest you edit to to stem any further misunderstandings.

[Josh]

I understand the idea completely. Further explanation is unnecessary for me to grasp the governing concepts. I promise.

Again, however, it is a relatively more complex system. Look at what you proposed (additional currencies, quests to obtain currencies, achievements awarded based on currency spent, revivals granted based on achievements) and then look at what I posted (player gets a debuff, they can pay to remove it if it doesn't come off on its own) and tell that one isn't more complex than the other. That was my point.

Your over generalization of my post is borderline insulting. My "mentality" is "do what's best for the RPG." Often times that means utilizing simplified systems in order to make things easier for everyone (new members, old members, staff members, etc.). That is not always the case, certainly, but to presume I would say "shut it down" just because it's a complex idea is... well... that's never been how I operate and you should know that by now. If you insist on boiling my posts down to the most negative over-simplification you can, then I won't further waste my time.

I never once said you shouldn't do it because it seems complicated. I never once said that complex ideas or system shouldn't be used in the RPG. I said it feels like manufactured complexity to force meaning onto a concept that doesn't actually need it. That says nothing about my "mentality" outside of a specific opinion about a specific suggestion.

If you don't like my idea, if no one does, it never has to be spoken of again. That's totally fine with me. You asked to hear what people thought of your proposal in the opening post of this thread. If that isn't what you meant, then I suggest you edit to to stem any further misunderstandings.

You need to chill the fuck out.

Onto the next point. I agree with Kaden that the afterlife so far has really only served to kill activity in regular members. Even after bringing people back to life, or joining Saga's, it's just a giant sink hole for activity and it'd probably be better to just not have it at all.

Vad's proposition is also needlessly complicated, and would only serve to further weigh down an active member.

But at the same time, I think dying is far to common on the RPG. It is a good plot device, but it's pretty shitty when we have characters dying often during Saga's, even fake dying. It should be less common to die, and the penalty for dying should be semi-severe. Maybe instead of just taking a hit to CA, also losing some Zeni and XP as well. Ideally the people who die most often would be those who act like idiots during a saga, and try to be cool and heroic without thinking through the consequences.