REVOLUTION!(system change thread)

[Sigfried Hunin]

I'm not posting cause nobody will read or care about it. I mean, that's what it REALLY all comes down to. And I still firmly believe that I'm one of the more active people on the site.

The system works well enough to have done THIS MANY sagas and whatevers with it. Certainly, it can be improved, and it would help if it was, but ultimately the reason I've only written 3k words in the past week and posted 2k of that is cause I just don't think it matters. If I'm not writing with others, and nobody is reading my shit, why BOTHER with a public RP site? I have shit I can write on my own time, and I do.

I love Sigfried, I love the people on site, and that's why I'm not gone already. It's just hard to be motivated when it feels like your perpetually writing ALONE on a community site lol

And I try to write with others. It just always seems to fall through. I LOVE IT when there's shit that DOESN'T fall through, (eg: Budokai, and the most recent Saga thing) but it rarely happens.

On a different note, I've started writing again with the motivation that if I finish this shit then maybe me and Piper and Vad, maybe a few others, will start to write together. That'd be tits. I would totally get into that.

[Kazuya]

I think something that would be neat is to start rewarding more (or differently) for posting, and if we're going to keep items and the like relevant to the game, maybe make zeni much easier to obtain.

One of the great things that I miss about the old system (the one we had before VJ completely clusterfucked all of us), is that it mattered when we bought stuff. Everybody loves zeni, too. What I am thinking, is that since there is a way to reward XP for such and such amount of words, why not have such a system in place to earn zeni automatically? And for that matter, why not have something that goes along with that system of XP and Zeni to go towards "levelling up"?

Example:

Let's say someone makes a 1000 word post. They earn (and just bullshitting here with the formula) approx 5 xp. In addition, they also earn around 50zn, which seems pretty reasonable to me for a 1k word post. It works out to about 5zn per 100 words.

Let's say that our levels will go all the way up to 100, and scale by 15% each level from level 1, and at each 10 levels, it adds an extra 1000/5000/10000 etc. at the 10/20/30th level. So, if we start out at 0 at level 1, and it takes 1000 words to reach level 2, that post will get us to level 2. Level three will add that 1000 words plus 15%, so to get to level 3, we'd have to post 1150 words. Level 4 will be 1322.5 (can be rounded up to 1323, decimals wouldn't make sense in this type of system.). so fourth and so on.

With levels, we can earn certain perks, gear, weapons or able to train for certain techniques. Obviously with this, the higher the level, the better shit you get, and more shit you can train for opens up. I think with something like this, it will give us more...what's the word I'm looking for...incentive? to work towards these goals. More incentive = maybe more activity. More activity = happy chubbs soul sucking monster.


EDIT: Reading Sig's stuff up there, maybe we can do something more with that awards thing? it's been stagnant from what I can tell since the Invasion saga, which was months ago. Maybe we can do more novelty awards, like "Such and such forum whore award" or something. Or "Highest poster" or some shit. some kind of community recognitions to make members feel like their more involved would be nice.

[Ashe]

PP was added to curb the perma-SSJ possibility when we first turned over. It's also become a way to augment custom techniques into being more powerful.

This is true.

It's seen as useless because we've had, like, no actual official PvE saga where the shit was tracked since the system was put in place.

Fair point. I do agree with you. Unfortunately, as much as I want this to change, to my knowledge (and I could absolutely be wrong), any attempts at doing such resulted in a total lack of interest from all ends. People appear (and sometimes state) to have a desire to be able to roleplay whatever they want with no inhibitions upon their creativity while maintaining a need for measurement against others (which to me seems contradictory in that its a desire to limit another's roleplays by similar means). It makes for a rough balance to try to approach.

We have one of these threads up every few months where people push around ideas that, so they say, will bring them back into activity. And then staff implements what people want, and no one budges, and then there are more excuses, and then we have another one of these threads.

Arguing about whether or not we have PP, or whether or not people like pre-made vs. non-pre-made quests, and how PP should be replenished, is not going to affect the activity on this site, at all. The only way I've seen a system change affect activity is a large-scale overhaul, like what we did in 09 that triggered activity for a year and a half or so, before it died again. Tinkering with tiny, insignificant things isn't going to make anyone post.

Another fair point as well, for the most part. I do mostly agree with you. I think the approach of "system overhaul, change everything, condense this, rename that, call it something different" being used in hopes that "oh, thank you, the naming convention of this combined with the existence of this other element that we didn't actually use but I felt severely hindered me is gone, now that I don't have a scapegoat to use I'm going to roleplay again!" is not the exact panacea for the problem.

I am not going to pretend to have a solution to that, because I don't. I'm part of the problem, as are any of us that don't actively post and look for elements of the RPG that we can hope will shoulder the blame. Even the last couple of days I have found myself looking at the site and contemplating writing a bit, to the point of having open my Let Go thread from Mercy earlier in the evening but not making it to the point of turning off the video I was watching to write (thus why I didn't get on LoL - I intended to write).

You don't think the system matters. Noted! Now, I know this is crazy, but some of us have read this exact same post by you several times before, and we haven't accepted the truth of your words! (I know - morons, heh) But since the system doesn't matter anyway, would it be alright if you humour us and let us discuss it? I mean, if that's okay with you. Otherwise, I guess just keep posting this, we might smarten up enough to understand what you're saying eventually.

This post was entirely unnecessary. His post was a respectful one and pointed out that he disagrees with the proposed changes to the system being the solution we may hope it would be. Its a good point. I think it does further the discussion in that it promotes debate on what exactly leads to the lulls in activity aside from other forms of activity gaining our attention. It makes people defend why THIS is THE problem and not this other thing, or perhaps a combination of this one and that one.

--

I want to narrow down what factors might lead to this. Now to offer a suggestion, I think that one thing I might have an issue with is lack of incentive.

* Other than increasing an arbitrary number in my post bit that has been used approximately zero times, what do we have. The first step to identifying what is missing is to understand what we currently have access to to support giving our members motivation to write in general.

* Other than what we do have, what other things could we possibly utilize that would lead to more writing as a whole but not increase the work/stress load of others so much (rating/judgment systems, things that lead to inactivity from the other end?) Would a better comparison system lead to more overall competition and desire to stay ahead? Would some other form of reward system (in character or out of character) fuel your desire to write more? What can we do that will make you want to put aside the time that you are idling in town on your MMO of preference, or when you are playing that flash based game, or when you are boredly pressing F5 on the forums of your other preferred games/reddit, and get you to use that time to throw down a post on here?

* What do we currently use that possibly hinders your motivations and dissuades you from posting? What can we do to identify the things that make us feel pressured to write as nothing more than upkeep on our characters, becoming less something that we want to do and more something that we have to do?

I think engaging in discussions of these topics would be a great starting point in identifying a few of the issues and helping find the right tweaks that we can make to the site as a whole to bring about a better, more active writing community.

[Super Buu]

Probably unnecessary, yeah, but it's irritating to have these threads constantly interrupted with "whatever you do it won't matter, you guys just need to roleplay". It's patronising, unproductive, and reductionistic.

The thing is, the changes in the systems ultimately haven't been that huge. The main problem has stayed the same. People were active at the start, when powerlevels were close, then within a few months it was as imbalanced as it's always been. It's why, when this current system was being suggested, I pushed for diminishing returns or something. We could have implemented a better system then, but many people didn't think it would become a problem. Now, it's generally accepted that it IS a problem. So the logical thing to do is to remove the problem. It's not some neverending, pointless cycle, it's an iterative process that's slowly improved the system. It's just taken way longer to get to this point than any of us would like.

[Kaden]

Now, it's generally accepted that it IS a problem. So the logical thing to do is to remove the problem. It's not some neverending, pointless cycle, it's an iterative process that's slowly improved the system. It's just taken way longer to get to this point than any of us would like.

We completely removed the problem. Literally. It was 100% gone. And an overwhelming majority of the members said they wanted it back. I was genuinely surprised.

[Super Buu]

Wait, which problem are we talking about now? The one I'm talking about is still around. The power gap.

[Kaden]

Yeah. The power gap.

We removed CA completely.

[Super Buu]

Oh, right. I actually completely forgot about that, since the CA postbit is still around (and I think it's still supposed to be relevant 'IC', just not in fights). But to me, that's a case of 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater'. Put simply, I want there to be power, I just don't want the gaps to get quite so massive.

[Blue]

I agree with my British friend. I like the dynamic rank system because a newcomer working hard can match a veteran. I know exactly how daunting the roster can look to someone new to the site. Especially if people are looking to gather the Dragonballs.

I understand it could be a lot of work to pull off, but in terms of increasing activity, I think it will help. It gives incentive to continue posting regularly.

[Celena]

The power gap would only be a problem for new members. I'm just hoping new members actually gain the confidence to ask a lot of questions and make their opinions heard in their new forum. New members definitely need confidence as writers and speakers, and they can only gain confidence from established members which is why I strongly back a mentor scheme. I was like a small fish in a big pond when I first came here. All I could do was watch bigger fish swim past left and right. I was forced to learn how to swim like them from constantly observing them. Now we have the chance to teach people how to swim like us, instead of just swimming past them. We should make use of that opportunity.

[Alexander Trafford]

Edit: Definitely not worth the hassle.

[Belle Hibiki]

Yeah. The power gap.

We removed CA completely.

We did? Man I must've missed that.

[Vad]

We did? Man I must've missed that.

Yep. It was gone for a good month or two.

[Belle Hibiki]

Yep. It was gone for a good month or two.

Oh yeah. Now I remember. Derp.

[Vad]

I think I was still stalled while writing Viper at the time. I miss her ;.;

[Piper Juunanagou]

If you roleplay, she will come.

[Vad]

If you roleplay, she will come.

:D

[Na'vi]

The issue with the power gaps is simple. Higher powered players should gain XP at lower rates. IE: the more powerful you are, the harder it should be to gain CA. This was suggested before and you all went, "Yeah, but that to hard to code"

Lame.

I know I am reviving this, but gimmie a break, I just got access back XD

Edit for Sig's comments: Yeah man, wtf? Read peoples shit.

[Kaden]

This was suggested before and you all went, "Yeah, but that to hard to code"

Lame.

If it's not something we can code, it's not something we can code. I don't really know what you want us to do at that point.

[Mza]

Yeah, a code like that isn't something you could really just edit to specific groups. Besides what would dictate the necessary change? Post count? Some people, like myself, post often but just don't have as long of a post. Combat Ability could be an arguable gauge but still, that would require a system similar to the group example.

The power gap complaint is merely an excuse and distraction. Not to name names, but there are members with less posts than Sig who have higher CA. Why? Not because the system is screwed up but they just focused their efforts and XP differently. The system is fine how it is honestly, maybe a person didn't write as well as another in one post but put more. This is volunteered time guys.

Are you saying someone on an MMORPG who plays 12 hrs shouldn't be as strong as a person who plays maybe 3 hours a day just because they don't strategize or utilize their powers and role? The bottom line is the time and effort was put in and they should be rewarded.

Maybe if they implemented a system where people had to write well enough that they earned power ups, similar to the old days, then it would get interesting again. Just because you earned the xp doesn't automatically mean you get ssj. It would bring that prestige back. The way it is now the only real thing of interest is, let me get the dragon balls so I can get a third ability. It's limited and limits tend to hinder growth. In my opinion at least.

Edit: Also in response to the argument about atrophy, can't remember where it was so I'll just respond here. PP can be deducted. Sure you can still transform but you can't do it as often or as long because you decided to go MIA and leave your muscles and technique to rot to shit. Resuming activity or remaining constant would prevent that obviously. It could work similar to the death concept where CA is halved until you do something to get it back to normal. It won't just be there when you get back like a hungry puppy wagging it's tail.