Questions about proposed changes

[Nori]

I like it.

[Victoria]

I have AD's stuff on my FTP still...just saying. If it's that stuff...Anyway.

I thought I'd add, that I don't really think we need to lose power points. I always found the job system worked for me (maybe because it was the catalyst for my writing). I never had any issues with the system because I used it. My only problem is that now that I'm at the top, I can't really find anything to buy...

[Nori]

I don't mind PP, I do mind that the current refilling of PP almost requires you to do jobs. Not everyone wants to write about jobs, or do premade quests. Some people just want to write about what they want, and not have a silly job.

Fits for some people, not all. Most people never even do their jobs they assign themselves with.

[Kaden]

I actually was in AD during that iteration of their system. I just didn't remember the ins and outs of it.

[Victoria]

Where exactly does it say you have to do a job to get your PP refilled?

[Kaden]

Not everyone wants to write about jobs, or do premade quests. Some people just want to write about what they want, and not have a silly job.

So, just to clarify, you don't have to do a Job to get zeni. You don't even have to do a pre-made quest. You can take something you've written and turn it in as your own quest. It's never been a requirement that you do a Job related to your profession in order to gain Zeni. Ever. Even when we first rolled out professions you could gain zeni for doing something that wasn't related to your profession, you simply wouldn't progress in Rank for doing that. It created a stigma that if you're not going to gain progress towards your Rank, there was no point in turning it in so no one got zeni because nothing was being graded.

EDIT: Nori means this, Vic. She thinks you have to do Job or pre-made Quests in order to get money. The only way to refill PP is by buying items. Buying items requires the money from those quests or jobs. So, in the end, doing jobs = refilling PP.

EDIT2: Interesting. Seems I was partially mistaken. It looks like we removed the ability to do your own Quests when we added in community-grading. I don't think that was the intent. Regardless, I still think my point stands. For a long, long time people could do whatever they wanted to get zeni and they just didn't do it.

[Victoria]

Oh, now I get it. Yeah, what Kaden said.

[Sigfried Hunin]

I like the idea of PP, but maybe it should slowly regenerate on it's own? That seems like a reasonable compromise?

And hey Vic! You should totally hook us up with that system's rules so that we can compare what we think would be good for Chubbz. I agree that an exact copy paste wouldn't be a good idea, but there's some cool shit in there that is very much worth looking at.

[Nori]

My point is Kaden that I don't think you should have to earn Zeni to refill your PP at all. You already get tons of perks from earning Zeni, and making people do filler content to earn back their PP is silly. Now for some characters it works, hell, some focus on it (looking at V), but for others it doesn't. It's tacked on in my opinion, and unneeded.

Also, how does your point still stand, Kaden? You currently have to do jobs or quests to be able to maintain your ability to use tier transformations. You have to work around the system to be able to have a character who activates tier transformations often, which limits freedom. This is also taking in account that tier transformations are largely for flair anymore, because some people want to ignore CA because they don't write as much as other people, but expect to be just as strong as them without as much work put in.

[Ashe]

My point is Kaden that I don't think you should have to earn Zeni to refill your PP at all. You already get tons of perks from earning Zeni, and making people do filler content to earn back their PP is silly. Now for some characters it works, hell, some focus on it (looking at V), but for others it doesn't. It's tacked on in my opinion, and unneeded.

Also, how does your point still stand, Kaden? You currently have to do jobs or quests to be able to maintain your ability to use tier transformations. You have to work around the system to be able to have a character who activates tier transformations often, which limits freedom. This is also taking in account that tier transformations are largely for flair anymore, because some people want to ignore CA because they don't write as much as other people, but expect to be just as strong as them without as much work put in.

So your suggestion is that PP more or less only counts as a game mechanic during a saga and is always full if a saga is not taking place? By doing that, how would you resolve the problem of a character always being able to stay permanently at their highest Tier when not in a saga but fighting someone of a lower Tier, such as being attacked for an attempt to steal dragonballs? Would we take the "Tough luck, they are the stronger character and should win every encounter" route or would we try to allow "attacks of opportunity" on a player when they are weak from thoughtlessly burning through all their strongest attacks every saga and getting punished for it?

[Kaden]

making people do filler content to earn back their PP is silly.

Regardless, I still think my point stands. For a long, long time people could do whatever they wanted to get zeni and they just didn't do it.

"Filler" implies that quests or jobs were relatively meaningless and only served to gain money.

That's 100% on the the writer. I used jobs as a very to both further my character and create zeni. Additionally, like I said, people didn't even have to do jobs to get zeni. A "job" that had nothing to do with your profession was a "quest." Quests could be, literally, anything. The only thing someone had to do was make a thread in the QSU forum asking for a grading. That was it. People still didn't do it. That was my point.

We made it as easy as we possibly could for people to get zeni and they just didn't do it. Of course it's going to seem like its hard to refill PP when no one has money because no one turned in quests.

You have to work around the system to be able to have a character who activates tier transformations often, which limits freedom.

This is hugely misleading as well. You have to "work around the system" (in this case it should be "use the system") in order to activate transformations often in fights against other people. PP is only spent when using a Power-Up to directly impact the outcome of a player-vs-player fight. The entire point of the system is to "limit the freedom" of someone to walk around winning fight-after-fight-after-fight because they have the highest-tier transformation.

It is intentionally restrictive, but only in a very qualified manner.

EDIT: I should state that I have no intention or expectation or changing your mind on this issue. If someone has just decided they don't like X, then they don't like X. My intention is to explain the function that the mechanic is intended to serve. I can safely say that it is only going to change as long as a similar mechanic is implemented to take its place.

[Nori]

"Filler" implies that quests or jobs were relatively meaningless and only served to gain money.

That's 100% on the the writer. I used jobs as a very to both further my character and create zeni. Additionally, like I said, people didn't even have to do jobs to get zeni. A "job" that had nothing to do with your profession was a "quest." Quests could be, literally, anything. The only thing someone had to do was make a thread in the QSU forum asking for a grading. That was it. People still didn't do it. That was my point.

We made it as easy as we possibly could for people to get zeni and they just didn't do it. Of course it's going to seem like its hard to refill PP when no one has money because no one turned in quests.

This is hugely misleading as well. You have to "work around the system" (in this case it should be "use the system") in order to activate transformations often in fights against other people. PP is only spent when using a Power-Up to directly impact the outcome of a player-vs-player fight. The entire point of the system is to "limit the freedom" of someone to walk around winning fight-after-fight-after-fight because they have the highest-tier transformation.

It is intentionally restrictive, but only in a very qualified manner.

EDIT: I should state that I have no intention or expectation or changing your mind on this issue. If someone has just decided they don't like X, then they don't like X. My intention is to explain the function that the mechanic is intended to serve. I can safely say that it is only going to change as long as a similar mechanic is implemented to take its place.

It is 100% on the writer to decide what the job means to them, I agree, Kaden. That doesn't change the fact that the job system is forced onto people when it really doesn't have to be. For you it is integral to your character. For me, not so much.

Also, you didn't answer why the whole pp situation couldn't be solved outside of Zeni.

As for your edit, your not changing my idea because your not really saying anything different then what I already know you think. I believe a job shouldn't be forced onto people, it's that simple. I have yet to hear any reason why it HAS to be, other then "you can work it into your story or make it what you want".

I really don't know Ashe, i'm just voicing my lack of satisfaction with the job system, and how it translates to characters (arguably mine). I'm hoping that with the new system ideas people are presenting it will solve my objectivity, or at least make it better.

I'm tired of always picking regen because I hate having to earn Zeni. QQ.

Also, summoning? =3

[Kaden]

Also, you didn't answer why the whole pp situation couldn't be solved outside of Zeni.

It creates more of a critical choice for the players, that's why. It is commonly accepted that zeni is harder to earn, so spending PP (which requires Zeni to refill) becomes a more calculated decision.

Of course we didn't have to use Zeni for the PP system. It was an intentional choice.

I've already said, btw, that the intention is to look into automating Zeni. Like... I blatantly said that. You're arguing for something we're already trying to do.

[Super Buu]

Also, summoning? =3

Wouldn't staff allow something like that as a PP-powered custom tech? >.>

[Nori]

It creates more of a critical choice for the players, that's why. It is commonly accepted that zeni is harder to earn, so spending PP (which requires Zeni to refill) becomes a more calculated decision.

Of course we didn't have to use Zeni for the PP system. It was an intentional choice.

I've already said, btw, that the intention is to look into automating Zeni. Like... I blatantly said that. You're arguing for something we're already trying to do.

I was complaining about the current system and haven't kept up with the changes that you guys have been talking about. Now, in before this is the questions about the changes proposed, I posted them before you talked about automating the zeni. I was defending my stance that you shouldn't have to funnel into jobs/quests to earn zeni to spend on PP, which you need to stay competitive on CA based events.

Also, let's say for story purposes, I want to demonstrate my power to Vad in spar. I go super saiyan 2 and we fight. Just to get the point across that I've achieved a level above him in a quick spar, I've lost all my PP and now have a huge disadvantage. How is that remotely fair or balanced, or even demonstrates a calculated choice? It results to "fuck, I can't demonstrate my power in this spar because if I really need to use it, I won't be able to unless I go do quests/missions."

If it was usable, even as PP techs, I would abuse the fuck out of it. Summoning that is.

People can argue that tier only really comes into effect during sagas, because that's where player vs player interaction occurs, and you can get zeni from sagas. However if the forum was more active it would be a bigger deal because there would be more player interaction outside of a saga, which is slim to nothing at the moment.

[Kaden]

Also, let's say for story purposes, I want to demonstrate my power to Vad in spar. I go super saiyan 2 and we fight. Just to get the point across that I've achieved a level above him in a quick spar, I've lost all my PP and now have a huge disadvantage. How is that remotely fair or balanced, or even demonstrates a calculated choice?

If it's something scripted for your story, that's not a fight. It wouldn't use PP.

PP is only spent when using a Power-Up to directly impact the outcome of a player-vs-player fight.

There is not effect to the outcome, because it is predetermined. So it's not a case where PP would be used.

[Orion]

I was complaining about the current system and haven't kept up with the changes that you guys have been talking about.

Then why are you banging on about a system that will be replaced and has been mentioned that it will be replaced repeatedly? If you're not up to date with what's happening, you're just making useless posts.

[Kaden]

Then why are you banging on about a system that will be replaced and has been mentioned that it will be replaced repeatedly? If you're not up to date with what's happening, you're just making useless posts.

Just to be clear, our intention is to replace the job system with automated zeni. Whether or not that will be possible is unclear at this point. That part is not set in stone.

We will, however, almost certainly be getting rid of jobs. We just don't know what we'll do yet if automation doesn't work.

[Kaden]

I was complaining about the current system and haven't kept up with the changes that you guys have been talking about

So, a quick update.

The intention is to remove the profession system in its entirety and automate zeni gain (like XP is now). We'd like people to be able to gain zeni as they post, though we want the gains to be somewhat slow in an effort to keep quests relevant.

There were, initially, technical limitations that prevented us from adding this and, more currently, technical concerns that have kept us from adding it before we have everything stable and backed up.

Given that, what wasn't been added that you would like to see?

That was posted before you made any posts in this thread in the last couple of days.

It is genuinely infuriating to me when someone walks into a discussion like this (a type of discussion that I take pretty seriously) and says that they haven't been reading what's been talked about.

I am done responding to your posts in this, and other similar threads, Nori.

[Nori]

If it's something scripted for your story, that's not a fight. It wouldn't use PP.



There is not effect to the outcome, because it is predetermined. So it's not a case where PP would be used.

And it would. =P