League of Legends

[Ashe]

Its true. If there are not at least 8-10 wards inside of the total team's inventory at all times, we are making a mistake. I don't care what reason I'm given, if wards are not going down, then the "THEIR TEAM IS MORE OP THAN OUR TEAM/TOO TANKY/TOO ANNOYING" because less relevant because there are obvious mistakes to clear up.

Doesn't matter what role you are, you should always be buying wards. Notice in that pic, only Caitlyn is missing a ward, likely from buying a full Wriggles right then and having too little gold left. They didn't say "Support or Jungle, the guide said you guys are responsible for warding". If one person buys 23 wards over the course of the game while another says "I have shrooms/traps/turrets/boxes and CV", then you just made that person fall behind a complete BF sword. That person then quickly falls behind the team for trying to help as much as possible while other people are still being ganked (falling behind themselves) due to lack of map coverage.

Played a game the other day with Trygelan and Kaden (and two others, don't remember who) and we pulled a win out of a strong losing position against a heavy roaming team due to all of us getting wards the entire game. We would buy wards to the point of having to delay that Bloodthirster/Deathcap, but we had the entire map visible. We knew every move they made and reacted. They bought an oracles and swept our wards. We did the same. They got craftier in their placement. We did the same. When they moved, we moved, and when they danced, we danced. We adjusted and won as a result. If we had insisted on just continuing to try to farm our lanes (which they were ganking enough to prevent), we'd have been all "ARRRGGGGG THIS IS BORING AND THEY ARE TOO STRONG SURRENDER AT 20 PLEASEEEEE".

Instead, we had one of the most enjoyable games I've played in a while. Shit, the other team was even cool to chat after with. But the big point was that when we counterwarded the entire map, they felt so strongly about our wards that they felt they needed to kill them. When we killed the oracles, they did it again. The information gained was that valuable to both teams, and denying info was a huge goal that game.

[Kaden]

I really like that LoL is going a different direction, and I'm pleased that the other games will help draw out the players who play the game for lack of an alternative with a tendency to show their malcontent.

This.

Will DotA2 succeed? Yes, of course. Between the labels of DotA and Valve, it will just fine. Ironically, the popularity of LoL is going to do wonders for the branding of "DotA2." Valve gets free publicity simply because LoL exists.

Will DotA2 have a significant impact on Riot? Probably not to a relevant degree. Yes, there will be an initial wave of people flocking to DotA. Yes, some people will leave LoL for good. The people who spend money on LoL, though, are going to keep spending money on LoL.

Riot absolutely made the correct choice in saying "ok, DotA is a thing, and we're using it for a base, but LoL is not going to be DotA." There is plenty of room for both games in the market. I just hope that DotA2 does better than HoN (and I'm pretty confident it will) because some degree of serious competition will be good for Riot.

[Vad]

Played a game the other day with Trygelan and Kaden (and two others, don't remember who) and we pulled a win out of a strong losing position against a heavy roaming team due to all of us getting wards the entire game. We would buy wards to the point of having to delay that Bloodthirster/Deathcap, but we had the entire map visible. We knew every move they made and reacted. They bought an oracles and swept our wards. We did the same. They got craftier in their placement. We did the same. When they moved, we moved, and when they danced, we danced. We adjusted and won as a result. If we had insisted on just continuing to try to farm our lanes (which they were ganking enough to prevent), we'd have been all "ARRRGGGGG THIS IS BORING AND THEY ARE TOO STRONG SURRENDER AT 20 PLEASEEEEE".

Instead, we had one of the most enjoyable games I've played in a while. Shit, the other team was even cool to chat after with. But the big point was that when we counterwarded the entire map, they felt so strongly about our wards that they felt they needed to kill them. When we killed the oracles, they did it again. The information gained was that valuable to both teams, and denying info was a huge goal that game.

If this is the game I'm thinking of that was a fucking epic game.

[Kaden]

If there are not at least 8-10 wards inside of the total team's inventory at all times, we are making a mistake.

That's pretty excessive. 3-4 wards at a time is still a lot of coverage and is incredibly reasonable. If you keep Baron, Dragon, and two points into the river covered throughout the entire game, you've done a good job warding.

EDIT: My point isn't "omg Dariden buys too many ward." It's that good coverage is pretty easy to get. If you have four relatively central points warded, then off-map movement becomes pretty predictable if not out-right obvious.

EDIT2: I'll also say that if people are using traps/etc. responsibly through the whole game, they're allowed to not buy wards. Not planting anything until a team-fight, though, is not being responsible.

[Super Buu]

Stuff

This seems to be pretty much it. But it's also why I think DotA 2 is really only going to appeal to the hardcore DotA fans.

In terms of denying and such: for me, it's about the focus. Focusing more on macro strategy rather than micro strategy. It's why I prefer DoW to say, Starcraft. Of course, it is a matter of personal preference too. But I do hate it when people confuse skill requirement with strategic depth.

[Jarka]

That's pretty excessive. 3-4 wards at a time is still a lot of coverage and is incredibly reasonable. If you keep Baron, Dragon, and two points into the river covered throughout the entire game, you've done a good job warding.

EDIT: My point isn't "omg Dariden buys too many ward." It's that good coverage is pretty easy to get. If you have four relatively central points warded, then off-map movement becomes pretty predictable if not out-right obvious.

EDIT2: I'll also say that if people are using traps/etc. responsibly through the whole game, they're allowed to not buy wards. Not planting anything until a team-fight, though, is not being responsible.

In regards to edit 2, it's not even that they shouldn't have to buy wards, it's that a lot of people underestimate the value of the vision-type skills. Wards die after three minutes. A Teemo shroom lasts 10. Nid/Cait traps last four. Turrets are indefinite, but I personally think they're better as pushing tools. Boxes only last 90 seconds, so they're not really a great substitute. All of them have an additional offensive value along with the vision (although the sight granted is smaller than a ward, yes, but a little attention to how auto-pathing works pretty much solves that).

Just the boost in length for the traps (and holy shit the shrooms) is awesome. That's one more minute that you can push without worrying about immense fog of war. That's one more minute that you can juke through the jungle with decent knowledge of where the enemy is at. That's one more minute that you don't have to worry about overextending to drop a replacement ward when the one at baron dies out.

Even just spammable vision-granting abilities are often underestimated. I can't tell you how many times somebody has face-checked (and been nommed up) when I have Orianna's Q or Lux's E ready and am about to click the brush.

Same goes for CV. The reason I take it on EVERY CHAMPION is because so few people use it on every 40 second cooldown to help their entire team (although I will admit, my mid game CV sucks). It's definitely not a replacement for wards, no, but you're not always going to have time to run into their jungle and ward the path between mid and bot turret so you can backdoor. I can't tell you how many times a smart CV has gotten a turret down just because our carry can see where they aren't.

As a Teemo player, I have never ever ever ever ever said that I shouldn't buy wards because of my shrooms. They may not be as high on my priority list, but I still try to pick them up. However, nothing irks me more than when somebody says my shrooms are useless for vision when they've been helping keep tabs on the enemy team throughout most of the game.

And for the love of all things LoLy, please kill people with Oracles, especially if they're squishy.

[Anzekay]

There's some places for wards that I've seen the teams at IEM using that aren't on that map that are super cool, as well!

[Anzekay]

This seems to be pretty much it. But it's also why I think DotA 2 is really only going to appeal to the hardcore DotA fans.

In terms of denying and such: for me, it's about the focus. Focusing more on macro strategy rather than micro strategy. It's why I prefer DoW to say, Starcraft. Of course, it is a matter of personal preference too. But I do hate it when people confuse skill requirement with strategic depth.

Starcraft is all about macro, what are you talking about!?!?!

[Rafael]

Starcraft=micro heavy. Macro is good but micros where noobs like me with "One A" power and folks who run back their goddamned marines every shot are shown to be on different levels

Back on topic: I do really need to start buying more wards and, more importantly, actually placing them. I totally forget I have them half the time because something distracts

[Anzekay]

It's all about macro up until a certain point where you need to improve your micro, and then it's back to macro skill. The game is a godamn macro game before it is a micro game! D:<

But this is horribly offtopic, I just had a vein almost burst at the idea of Starcraft being a micro game

I should add these ward spots I saw at IEM to that map. They're these little corner spots near the river at wraiths that are really good because they cover both part of the river and the jungle there, and a few other spots not on that map Trygellan linked.

EDIT: Here we go, roughly where those little blocky red stars are (woo mspant)
[spoiler] [/spoiler]

[Ashe]

Nevermind.

[Waffuru]

I wanted to make a ward placement guide, more exact than that but fucking LoL wouldn't let me screenshot so I gave up.

[Trygelan]

One thing I want to add on the subject of wards... When you have wards, one thing to remember is to not place them somewhere that isn't high priority (dragon/baron or buffs) unless you plan to be in that area for a large portion of the the 3 minutes. That way you don't have a ward on top or bot lane that is protecting no one. By doing that you save time on your wards so you don't have to buy even more.

Also, by 1-2 wards per times going base, it's fairly easy to make sure it happens. If you are laning and about to go back to buy something, stick around a bit longer to get 2 or 3 more creep kills which will give you the ward. If you are blue pilling then open your store panel and check the price of what you are going to buy to make sure you have enough for a ward. Keep in mind that warding does help you farm better which will increase your gold by far more than the 75 they cost by giving you the safety to farm in that area while it's up.

Pretty much from start to finish wards need to be bought. You can save placing one on lanes most times until about level 3 or 4 because the large majority of junglers will wait till at least level 4 for a gank.

This rambled quite a bit because of watching the IEM match between [M] and Fnatic, but what I would like to see is the ward cost being spread out on more people rather than focused on one or two usually hurting their build overall. Over the course of a game, if each person buys 10 wards that's 750 gold which really isn't all that much, and also made up for somewhat with the gold mastery if you can pick it up. On the other hand, if only one or two people are buying wards, to get the same amount of wards they spend a hell of a lot more gold over all. For two people to get the same ward uptime and coverage would require 3750 gold split between those two. A massive amount of gold to be used for safety by just 2 people. Never mind the time spent placing them.

Moral of the story, every single person needs to buy wards.

[Anzekay]

This is why the main buyer of wards in the big teams these days is the support- they just get all those gp5 items. Very boring, but very effective.

Of course then the rest of the team still buys 1-2 wards of their own very frequently. That should really hit hard the idea that WARDS ARE GOOD YO.

[Super Buu]

I've become the dude that tells everyone to buy wards in normal games these days. BUT DEM PUBBIES NEVER LISTEN ANYWAY

[Kaden]

This is why the main buyer of wards in the big teams these days is the support- they just get all those gp5 items. Very boring, but very effective.

This.

It's one of the reasons I hate the current meta for supports. Their build is boots, gp5, and wards.

[Super Buu]

On the topic of supports, I've decided to learn one, and so my next purchase is a champion I've wanted since she was first announced - Orianna. Any protips?

[Jonathan Meer]

Riot absolutely made the correct choice in saying "ok, DotA is a thing, and we're using it for a base, but LoL is not going to be DotA." There is plenty of room for both games in the market. I just hope that DotA2 does better than HoN (and I'm pretty confident it will) because some degree of serious competition will be good for Riot.

And by good for Riot, it follows that it will be very good for us.

[Ashe]

On the topic of supports, I've decided to learn one, and so my next purchase is a champion I've wanted since she was first announced - Orianna. Any protips?

That's not a character I recommend going gp5 with wards on. Her AP demands are like those of Lux and Morgana - she wants to farm and build like a mage.

You CAN build the other way, but she's far less effective in my opinion when her ball isn't a worry in regards to zoning due to low damage and her shield becomes an easily poppy bubble.

The big four that do the babysitting gp5 thing are Taric, Soraka, Janna, and Sona. That said, there are major changes coming to all of them soon, most notably Soraka and Taric.

---

How I tend to build Orianna is similar to Morgana but more in the direction of Lux. I try to get cd boots on her (a big deal on her, though if I have survival issues, I get Move3. Merc Treads are great, but with her, my positioning tends to keep me out of needing them much and if I do, that's positioning mistakes, not as much a tenacity need. If they ARE just that good getting behind me, I get Merc.) There are only honestly two champs I will say to get this asap on, Lux and Orianna, but get Mejai's asap. You won't die much, due to their "stay in the back doing lots of damage" playstyle, but you'll be doing enough aoe from a good range to either wrack up kills (your ult does a good bit of damage) or at least stack from assists. I rarely have issues justifying it on those two champs - hate it on nearly anyone else for inconsistency reasons.

Beyond that, Deathcap as usual and then decide what you need from their team. I've been unimpressed with Rylai's on her. Maybe I'm not noticing it or something, but it seems like your Q and E, that move the ball, don't trigger it, meaning it more or less is "added slow to your W". Hourglass is good for survival and for AP, but not a requirement - depends on how much they come after you, which if they are diving through your team, that's a different issue. I like ArcStaff on her. I have a tendency to build survival gear after, like Banshee's to protect my stacks.

Play tricks - if your tank is about to initiate, give him your ball for the shield and bonus MR and Armor. If your carry gets jumped, swap it to them temporarily. Use it as preemptively as possible, like Kayle's shield, on anyone that's about to take a lot of damage. Zone with your Q (and its PBAoE moves). Remember that you can throw your ball out with Q, then shield yourself with E to basically damage a group twice, mixing a W in there.

The tricky stuff is remembering that you can activate the ball in ways that aren't immediately noticeable. Its easy when running to want to W while holding the ball to speed myself up to catch up to the group, but if the carry is chasing someone and trying to get that last hit, throw them the ball with E and then W while its on them - they'll get the speed boost and you'll get it once you catch up to that spot as well. This is also a great trick to help extract someone that's being chased. Throw your ball onto someone like Katarina when she ults and then use your ult so they take maximum damage. Q the ball onto a group that's about to be hit by Brand's ult and then ult to keep them there (or to reposition them for something like Lux laser/some kind of cage). I get quite a few kills simply baiting someone under my tower when I'm low and then kiting them with W on myself before activating my shield, getting close and ulting, usually interrupting whatever they are doing while keeping them in tower range for a bit (while slowed from W).

I'd say she's kinda like playing chess in the middle of a match. Very fun and rewarding, but tough to play to her fullest potential.

[Jonathan Meer]

I've heard Mejai's on Soraka is rather good. I don't typically bother, as you have to build it early to capitalize, and I'd rather spend that early money on straight CDR and gp5, but you do typically get a good number of assists on her early on, especially via a well-placed ult.

I'd say 70% of my soraka ults are to nab assists. Early game, it might mean your team doesn't have that safety net for 100 seconds, but the gold you get from it is more than sufficient justification. Too, the team shouldn't be relying on her ult anyway.

But then, you asked about orianna, not soraka =p