Jungling 101

[Super Buu]

^Xin and Tryn are the ones I've started out jungling with. I only have like 70% of a complete jungle rune page and the rest in assorted crap, but it seems to work well enough for normal games.

[Ashe]

Jungle Udyr is ONLY Udyr. I just like to call him, "Udyr."

I, uh, never said a thing about Udyr. That said, Tyr's totally correct that lately he's more of a top solo laner than jungler, though he's very competent in both.

I love jungling with WW. I grab a Wriggles and ward the shit out of things, plus by the end of it, I tend to be unnaturally good at absorbing damage. I've even gotten better at ganking before 6, because I know that's a big complaint with WW's.

I want to try jungling with Xin or Tryn. They both seem like fun.

I'd also like to try jungling Nunu, but I have so much fun laning with him.

Still just have never been a fan of WW. Since beta, I've just found him to be extremely boring and a fairly less effective character in general. Ok, he's an easy as shit jungler, but I don't think he really does anything with it. Actually, I'll go as far as to make the following statement - despite Warwick having very good jungling speed and thus being actually viable there, I'd prefer even a Jungle Taric over him. And that's not even a big complement to Taric so much as it is throwing out my opinion on WW.

I don't really like Nunu laning much. I really like his jungling. That said, Kaden has the exact opposite opinion of me there, so he could probably help those that really want to do it. Also, I'm not saying "Nunu is bad laner", just that I don't "like him in lane" all that much in comparison, just to be clear.

[Sigfried Hunin]

I, uh, never said a thing about Udyr. That said, Tyr's totally correct that lately he's more of a top solo laner than jungler, though he's very competent in both.

I, uh, was just adding to your list of super pro junglers.

That aside, I am of the mindset that Udyr should never ever ever lane.
Udyr CANNOT harass in lane
Udyr CANNOT maintain mana in lane
Udyr CANNOT gank freely in lane
Udyr CAN be harassed easily in lane
Udyr is FORCED into pushing his own lane to maintain mana.
(To quote SxR, that is)

[Ashe]

I, uh, was just adding to your list of super pro junglers.

That aside, I am of the mindset that Udyr should never ever ever lane.
Udyr CANNOT harass in lane
Udyr CANNOT maintain mana in lane
Udyr CANNOT gank freely in lane
Udyr CAN be harassed easily in lane
Udyr is FORCED into pushing his own lane to maintain mana.
(To quote SxR, that is)

Same arguments can apply to Midwick. Both of which were a fairly dominate strategy in the meta for a while to the point of direct nerfs to WW's sustain SPECIFICALLY calling it out as the reason. Regardless of how great of a jungler they are, high ELO games see things like this take over because someone finds the strategy to be rather dominate. If it was as bad of a strategy as some voices claim, then in games of that high of ELO (2000+ streamers and such) they would laugh and counter it and abuse the hell out of exactly those weaknesses. What usually happens is that the Udyr is the other team's counterpick to the first team's solo top, but in general he can be an immovable object that, when someone comes to gank him for pushing his lane, just runs back to his tower while staying full health just to go back and do it again.

At first glance, I'd even say those same arguments (most of them) can be applied to Garen in a solo lane. A power pushing lane (Mordekaiser as well) can do well if they push hard enough to force attrition on the opposing tower while letting it reset their creep wave so they can go back to better positioning and bring the next wave along.

[Sigfried Hunin]

Same arguments can apply to Midwick. Both of which were a fairly dominate strategy in the meta for a while to the point of direct nerfs to WW's sustain SPECIFICALLY calling it out as the reason. Regardless of how great of a jungler they are, high ELO games see things like this take over because someone finds the strategy to be rather dominate. If it was as bad of a strategy as some voices claim, then in games of that high of ELO (2000+ streamers and such) they would laugh and counter it and abuse the hell out of exactly those weaknesses. What usually happens is that the Udyr is the other team's counterpick to the first team's solo top, but in general he can be an immovable object that, when someone comes to gank him for pushing his lane, just runs back to his tower while staying full health just to go back and do it again.

At first glance, I'd even say those same arguments (most of them) can be applied to Garen in a solo lane. A power pushing lane (Mordekaiser as well) can do well if they push hard enough to force attrition on the opposing tower while letting it reset their creep wave so they can go back to better positioning and bring the next wave along.

I CAN see Udyr just sittin' there and eating things with uber turtle and devouring gank attempts which I suppose at a very high level of play would be a detriment to the other team, but I just don't know if I can see him being MORE effective than others at this? Is there a reason why he'd be a better pick than other predominant top laners?

[Kaden]

Udyr CANNOT harass in lane
Udyr CANNOT maintain mana in lane
Udyr CANNOT gank freely in lane
Udyr CAN be harassed easily in lane
Udyr is FORCED into pushing his own lane to maintain mana.
(To quote SxR, that is)

Rune for MP/5. Max turtle. Spam turtle. All those issues have now been addressed.

The reason Udyr "works" is because the meta right now is "solo top melee bruiser." Most bruisers have to either get into melee to harass (pro-tip: don't trade melee harass with Udyr, tiger stance > you) or have harass that's easily countered by turtle shield.

If Udyr has to lane on someone like Cass or Morde, he'll lose simply because their spam is more resource-efficient and, if need be, they can out push him like a baws.

[Sigfried Hunin]

Rune for MP/5. Max turtle. Spam turtle. All those issues have now been addressed.

The reason Udyr "works" is because the meta right now is "solo top melee bruiser." Most bruisers have to either get into melee to harass (pro-tip: don't trade melee harass with Udyr, tiger stance > you) or have harass that's easily countered by turtle shield.

If Udyr has to lane on someone like Cass or Morde, he'll lose simply because their spam is more resource-efficient and, if need be, they can out push him like a baws.

See above, I'm interested in your answer to that as well.

[Trygelan]

Is there a reason why he'd be a better pick than other predominant top laners?

As Kaden said, pick him as a counter to their bruiser top. The reason to pick him over others such as Morde or whatever is because of his insane sustain and his ability to shrug off almost all ganks. Not only that, late game he has insane presence with his stun and high mobility, along with doing a lot of damage while still being very tanky.

So in draft mode if the other team picks a bruiser for top lane, pick udyr to counter him and that frees up the jungler to focus on other lanes because he can mostly ignore Udyr's lane because he'll be fine alone up there most of the time. This lets the jungler put more pressure on the other 2 lanes, more control over dragon, and more chances to invade the enemy jungle.

As long as you know the enemy top lane is going to be a bruiser, and not someone that can counter him with range, then Udyr is an amazing choice for top lane. Put someone like Gragas, Morde, Brand, Cass or the like top lane, and he's not an amazing choice, but still doable.

EDIT: And even against the harder pushers like Morde or Gragas, Udyr is still fairly good because with them pushing so hard it allows him to turtle stance and push back just as hard for sustain.

[Kaden]

Not only that, late game he has insane presence with his stun and high mobility, along with doing a lot of damage while still being very tanky.

That, mostly. His ability to disrupt and chase are absolutely insane. His Tiger DoT also does enough base damage that he doesn't need to itemize for it to be a threat, allowing him to go full tank and still do good damage. You'll see a lot of Udyr's, though, go trinity, which is crazy good on him for both survival and killing power.

[Sigfried Hunin]

That, mostly. His ability to disrupt and chase are absolutely insane. His Tiger DoT also does enough base damage that he doesn't need to itemize for it to be a threat, allowing him to go full tank and still do good damage. You'll see a lot of Udyr's, though, go trinity, which is crazy good on him for both survival and killing power.

Oh yeah, I love trinity Udyr. Udyr s a monster when he gets to killing I guess I just wasn't very clear on why he made a good laner.

[Kaden]

Because you can't do anything about him.

[Sigfried Hunin]

Because you can't do anything about him.

Got that now.

[Kaden]

Having the Alistar heals definitely played a part in it, but yeah. Maxed shield = can't do shit. And I really didn't have much MP/5. Bought a Meki and basically only had that.

[Sigfried Hunin]

Having the Alistar heals definitely played a part in it, but yeah. Maxed shield = can't do shit. And I really didn't have much MP/5. Bought a Meki and basically only had that.

I had that mana manipulator too, so that's good stuff. I still dunno how I feel about him as a laner because he's a bit hard to initiate and move people around with, but I'm sure at high levels of play people do cool shit with him.

[Kaden]

Well, to be fair, I wasn't really concentrating on actually playing the game.

XD

Ghost + Bear means you basically initiate where you please.

[Sigfried Hunin]

Well, to be fair, I wasn't really concentrating on actually playing the game.

XD

Ghost + Bear means you basically initiate where you please.

Yeah, especially if you have good timing about it, which is obv. not a downside of the champ if you just suck ass at diving in.

[Ashe]

If anyone wants to jungle as Olaf, here's a guide of the pros and cons by Stonewall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4MIBJd6owM

[Trygelan]

That's my main problem with Olaf. That and Karthus or Morde. Fuck those 2 champs when I'm on Olaf. And they are in every fucking game that I play him.

Also, if you are ever against Olaf, at about 4 minutes go to his red. Seriously. And he'll die 9 out of 10 times.

[Rafael]

Yeah...I'm the only Jungle Olaf I've ever seen I think and it's not really worth it, just fun.

Note: Just tried a movespeed Olaf( 3 boots, move quints, and then triforce) and it was pretty sweet. Poor Veigar in my game stood no chance, not that it stopped the loss. His ganks no so good

[Ashe]

Yeah, seriously, Karthus is definitely in every single game I've ever played as Olaf.

EDIT: Or Garen and Cho, since you sit in execute range.