Nubbe Centre

[Kaden]

That's pretty damn condescending.

This is just a problem me, i guess. i genuinely have no idea why that sounds condescending. if you could help me out with how it comes.off that way, i would appreciate of.

on phone. more to say later.

[Jonathan Meer]

k, you didn't mean it, misread

I'm not trying to come off as antagonistic. But I am pretty sure I'm right (if only technically), and I am pretty sure you're wrong, and I'm only pressing it to see if there's something behind your stance that I'm missing, that hasn't been clarified.

For the record, I didn't know any of this coming into the discussion. I didn't do the math beforehand; I just assumed you build AA. The discussion has been helpful for me.

Seriously though. Do keep giving advice.

[Kole T. Merr]

I'm not trying to come off as antagonistic. But I am pretty sure I'm right (if only technically), and I am pretty sure you're wrong

Yeah, there's absolutely no way anyone could possibly read this as antagonistic...

On a much less sarcastic note, I just bought the 7 rune page pack and will need to start filling it with runes. What kinds of runes should I have, and if you have champ-specific pages, I would love to see them.

[Jonathan Meer]

Yeah, there's absolutely no way anyone could possibly read this as antagonistic...

And how would you put it more tactfully?

[Kaden]

k, you didn't mean it, misread

I'm not trying to come off as antagonistic. But I am pretty sure I'm right (if only technically), and I am pretty sure you're wrong, and I'm only pressing it to see if there's something behind your stance that I'm missing, that hasn't been clarified.

That's the thing, though, there's nothing to be "right" or "wrong" about. Look how this conversation started.

There are a handful of champs that AA is good for.

I actually hate it on Ryze.

I can't be "wrong" about hating something. The only thing I've stated that I think I could just be wrong about is the following:

throwing 2~3 auto-attacks during the course of a fight, if you get Manamune instead of AA, you end up doing more damage.

Looking at just the math, you probably do get more damage out of an AA than a Manamune. If you look at what actually happens in a fight (RNG on his E, silence, casting his chain incorrectly, etc..) there are a lot of things that affect your damage "gain" if you get AA that don't affect just right-clicking someone.

Scrutinizing advice is fine. Mathcrafting advice is a trap. Most of the time it ends up meaning nothing. If someone says something about a build that you hadn't thought of, the absolute best thing you can do is go try it out for yourself. Play a game or two with it, get a feel for why the suggestion was made and what you did/n't get out of it and then come back and talk about it. My reason for buying Manamune really boils down to "I liked it more when I played Ryze with it." Do I have mathematical proof to support that? Apparently not that you agree with (which is fine, numbers only mean as much as you want them to). Does that mean I'm going to stop suggesting it? Nope.

Shifting gears.

...

Ok.

So you mentioned earlier about going back to buying Rod of Ages on Ryze and I don't recommend it. Ryze's "thing" is getting damage from mana while still being able to do burst damage. The reason it's a "thing" is because this lets him itemize for defense (Banshee's/Frozen Heart) while still being a definite threat. When you start itemizing like you would any other caster (AA, RoA) then what's the point of being Ryze? Annie, Brand, Anivia, etc., etc. all have better raw burst than Ryze.

If you want to play Ryze as competitively as possible (and you've said before you play to win, so I assume this is the case) then building defensively is the best course of action. When the strongest burst-caster on a team can also off-tank... that's serious business. When you're strongest burst-caster is just as squishy as any other caster and has less damage than they would have... that's... bad.

[Jonathan Meer]

On the first half, I gotcha, I mistook the general flavor of what you're saying. Stylistic difference.

Second half: The health boost from RoA is huge, the mana boost is equally massive, and it carries over the catalyst passive. The AP is a bit of a detour, granted, but it's definitely a dynamic trade-off. Between the sustaining passive and the huge HP boost (which only makes his endgame armor/mr better), RoA seems to be right-in-line with Ryze's defensive-burst style. And right after the RoA, you build Glacial into Banshee's (as needed, according to whoever's dicking around on the enemy team) into Frozen Heart. It's more of a delay of Ryze's bamf-ness until the endgame, but it seems to provide a better overall endgame than an RoA-less Ryze, and a more extensible endgame Ryze, in terms of mana. Next to AA/ToG, RoA provides the most mana of any item in the game.

I'm thinking AA, Sorc Shoes, RoA, Frozen Heart, Banshee's Veil, and a situational sixth (Void Staff, maybe).

[Kaden]

The spell shield, in my eyes, is worth more than the bonus HP/MP/AP from RoA.

[Mal Nova]

Core items


Tear of the Goddess
Easily the best item for Ryze, adds the largest amount of mana in the game when upgraded to Archangel's Staff. You may notice however that I wait till practically the end of the game to upgrade it. This is because the upgrade cost is 1860g and you have more important things to buy, from the upgrade you get 100-150 ap, 50 mana, and some mana regen. I didn't even mention the fact that it takes longer to fill out the bonus of 1000 mana when you upgrade since Tear gives you 4 bonus mana up to twice in a 6 second time periods and Archangels gives you 4 bonus mana up to once every 3 seconds. This may seem the same to you but Ryze is a burst caster, I sometimes cast 4 spells in the space of a second or two and no more for another 4 to 10 seconds. Therefore it is better to gain 8 mana in 3 seconds than it is to gain 4 mana in 3 seconds.
Sorcerer's Shoes
Ryze is a caster and getting more magic penetration could never be a bad thing. However in specific games with an annoying amount of magic damage enemies with CC it would be in your best interest to use Mercury's Treads instead.
Rod of Ages
Another great Item for Ryze, increases your mana, health and ap by a lot. The earlier you buy this the better, as it takes time to build up.
Glacial Shroud
Ryze's one and only CDR item, this should be gotten early too. Doesn't need to be upgraded to Frozen Heart fast unless they have a lot of physical damage.
Banshee's Veil
Great for teams with magic damage, not overly important if they have a bunch of physical damage and few annoying abilities for it to block.


Your 6th item is a situational item. Some other 6th item choices in no particular order are:

Rod of Ages, a great 6th item for games with split damage sources
Quicksilver Sash, great for games with annoying ultimates such as Malzahar's Ult
Force of Nature, in games with plenty of magic damage I sometimes buy Mercury's Treads and this to survive.
Guardian Angel, for games with a little bit of both types of damage and they will do whatever it takes to put it all on you in the first 5 seconds of a team fight.
Thornmail, I haven't had a chance to buy and test this yet but I would probably only buy it if they had 3-5 heavy hitting physical DPS.
Void Staff, if any of you were unlucky enough to get in a game where your team thinks because they have Ryze they don't need another source of damage you know this item is basically required. You must note that while you can be a carry your team should still have another physical damage carry. Having no other physical damage option means that the enemy team can and should stack magic resistance. I get this usually when I see 3+ enemies getting large amounts of magic resistance.
Zhonya's Hourglass, good if you need the active to survive team fights and maybe even the 50 armor to help screw over their physical DPS. While I have never had to I imagine a game where you were facing 5 physical DPS you could forgo Banshee's Veil in favor of Thornmail and this to reach 300+ armor and REALLY fuck them over.
Lich Bane, you'll be wondering "Why the contradiction" in a few sentences so let me get this out of the way. This item is good if you feel like enemies are escaping with low amounts of health and your speed feels lackluster. DO NOT spend the time to catch every proc, do so only when all your spells are on cooldown.

There are also items I am on the fence about, things that in some situations I can see being useful but have wasted stats or I just don't feel like testing them, I'll leave this up to you.

Deathfire Grasp, a amazing active in games where your opponents are stacking health and even if they aren't it's still great. Wasted CDR unless you rework the build somehow. If I got in a game with enemies stacking health I would get this, it just hasn't happened yet.
Will of the Ancients, having more spell vamp and not to mention you are buffing your team.
Rylai's Crystal Scepter, a slow on your spells and some health.

[Jonathan Meer]

It's good practice to link to whatever it is you're copying-and-pasting from, so as to give credit to the original author.

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legend...mned-58599

[Mal Nova]

Oh... I thought it was obvious where it came from...

It's the only recommended Ryze guide

[Kole T. Merr]

Well, this is what I have as far as runes go.

Reds: Armor Pen x9, Magic Pen x9
Yellows: Flat Armor x9, MP5/lvl x9, Dodge x5, MR/lvl x9, HP/lvl x2
Blues: CDR/lvl x9, Flat CDR x9, AP/lvl x9, MR/lvl x9
Quints: Flat HP x3, Magic Pen x1, AP/lvl x1

[Jonathan Meer]

Get Movement Speed quints, they are super sexual

Other than that, good collection

[Kaden]

Said this somewhere else, but I've been really grooving on my HP/5 quints.

And yeah, MS is awesome.

[Jack]

Can someone explain some of this slang to me. This is not the game I played back when nobody gave a shit...

[Mal Nova]

HP/5= Heath point Regen per 5 sec
MP/5= Its Mana regen instead of Health
Quint=Quintessence= Runes. There are three spots on your rune page that these can go into. Each spot is unlocked at a certain level

CDR= Cool Down Ratio (How fast the abilities cool down and are able to reuse

AP= Ability Power(How strong abilities get)

AD= Attack Damage...

MS=Movement Speed O_O

Grooving= Doing real good or liking the pay off

[Kole T. Merr]

LOL @ Mal being the one to explain something. And he even does it correctly.

[Mal Nova]

Lol I was out of pain meds and had to amuse myself. There's actually a link around here to the LoL forum that has the slang and abbreviations lingering around here. Might be in this very same thread....

[Mal Nova]

Found it!
John Doe posted it in the Mal thread located on Page 2 when I kept asking what the hell what meant...

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/show...hp?t=13418

[Mal Nova]

Looking at it, Snare is incorrect.

Snare = A debuff that slows movement speed of a target for a period of time

Snare actually is just like stun with the exception being that stun stops movement and attack. Snare stops your movement temporarily but you can still attack is something is within range.

[Mal Nova]

deny, denies= Basically last hitting your own creep. This mechanic does not exist in LoL, except for pirates "raise morale" ability. In Dota this would prevent the other from earning the gold and experience for killing the creep.

Also incorrect, kind of, as it doesn't relate to LoL. Pirate's, or Gangplank's rather, 'Raise Morale' doesn't do that. Denying means hitting or harassing the enemy so they cant get gold from last hitting or making them flee too far that they dont receive XP from the death of your allied minions.

Someone once linked a youtube link that was a tutorial how to 'correctly' deny.