Rally

[Jonathan Meer]

Seriously though. Not bad at all. A significant boost in teamfights (both an AD steroid and an AP steroid, 35 for the former and 70 for the latter). Why does it get no love?

Yes, it's practically useless in the laning phase unless you have some serious cc (or your jungler does, a la mummy), and yes, the kill pressure provided by exhaust or ignite is far better in the laning phase, but when it comes to 5v5s, it's extremely powerful. The AD steroid is better than Pirate's, and the AP steroid is unmatched, while its range ensures that properly timed placement will make it relevant throughout the bulk of the damage.

The only real problem is its awkward placement in the mastery tree. The AP boost is massive, and well worth the mastery point, but most champs that will go that high in the Offensive tree will make much better early use from Exhaust or Ignite. The sort of champ you'd want to take it on (Support and Tanks) don't benefit as much from the Offensive tree as from the other trees.

But there is an exception: Supportplank. Drop Rally, pop your E, bam. 59 AD and 70 AP to your team at level 18 (91 AP if they have Rabadon's, which most AP people will have at this point), from one summoner. Ignite and Exhaust are mere blips compared to this sort of output. Too, a centrally placed rally on bot (where you want your support anyway) covers a substantial portion of that lane, making involved ganks/lanefights there affected by the brunt of it. A level 9 lanefight, with five ranks of Raise Morale, is an extra 45 AD. That's a free BF sword, for 7 seconds (and half of that for 8 seconds after).

It's definitely a thing, especially in ARAM.

[Rafael]

Rally's lame.

[Trygelan]

It suffers a lot from not being mobile in any way. Team fights tend to move around, especially with a kite team, so it's effectiveness gets lessened a lot. Even if not against a kite team, it wouldn't be that difficult for a team to just back off when it's dropped and then restart the fight out of range or after it wears off.

All of that coupled with the fact that, like you said, ignite and exhaust are way better in laning makes rally really sup par.

The main thing to remember for this game is: Win the lane, win the game. Wining your lane really puts their team at a disadvantage due to one (or two) people being underfarmed and underleveled as long as your other lanes don't lose.

[Josh]

Rally would be good if it was something you could carry with you, like if the flag showed up strapped to your back and the buff followed you.

[Anzekay]

Rally suffers from what a lot of champions suffer from: sure on paper it seems good, but in practice it is just inherently a sub-par choice compared to the other things you have to choose from. At least, when it comes to champs, there is an element of playstyle or enjoyment involved. Rally is just dropping a flag on the ground.

[Jonathan Meer]

But it's not like Rally is completely useless in lane.

AND rally isn't an initiator, nor is it perfect for all team comps. It IS perfect for AoE stuns, a la Annie ult, a la Amumu ult. Soon as you see mummy nabs two people in his ult, drop rally, boom. dead.

[Jonathan Meer]

Rally suffers from what a lot of champions suffer from: sure on paper it seems good, but in practice it is just inherently a sub-par choice compared to the other things you have to choose from.

Name any spell that's better than a 35 AD and 70 AP steroid in a lategame teamfight. Name one.

The only one that's MAYBE close is Flash for positioning, as it can make all the difference. But even there, it's neck-and-neck at the very least.

At least, when it comes to champs, there is an element of playstyle or enjoyment involved. Rally is just dropping a flag on the ground.

I have no idea what this sentence means.

[Jonathan Meer]

Rally would be good if it was something you could carry with you, like if the flag showed up strapped to your back and the buff followed you.

1000 range is significant. It's just over 150% of Caitlyn range. Its effective range is higher than that, considering the 1000 range only concerns the placement of allied champions, and not enemy champions. Thus, an Ashe (with 600 range) can stand at the edge of the Rally buff and hit someone 600 units away. That's an enemy champion being affected by the steroid from 1600 units away. That's farther than Xerath's maximum range.

[Anzekay]

Name any spell that's better than a 35 AD and 70 AP steroid in a lategame teamfight. Name one.

The only one that's MAYBE close is Flash for positioning, as it can make all the difference. But even there, it's neck-and-neck at the very least.



I have no idea what this sentence means.

Exhaust to stop that AD carry slaughtering your squishies, ignite to stop that champ with a ton of lifesteal from just getting all their health back. I could go on, but that isn't really the point. If you're only taking rally for lategame teamfights, then you're giving up on having a powerful spell for early game in exchange for something that might be useful once or two in pitched teamfights that occur within the range of it, whereas you could have a spell that was really handy the entire damn game.

And I was talking about how even though rally sucks compared to other summoner spells, much like some champs suck compared to other champs, you can at least play a champ anyway because it's fun to you. I don't really see how rally is 'fun' to have in the same way that playing Veigar might be more fun to someone than annie.

Seems you've made your mind up about rally anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm bothering.

[Kaden]

The 35/70 numbers are at level 18. There are plenty of games where not all champs hit 18 and that's definitely something to keep in mind. I completely agree, though, that "free" stats are awesome in almost any situation.

The problem is that the other choices are almost always better. Rally can't save you from a gank. Rally can't give you vision in the enemy jungle. Rally can't debuff healing. Rally can't massively debuff an enemy's damage. Rally can't get you to a fight across the map.

I think it would be an awesome spell to throw onto a support champion (especially a Taric or Sona), but, again, it runs into that problem of "is it worth giving up CV or Flash to have?" For most people, the answer is no.

[Jonathan Meer]

Exhaust to stop that AD carry slaughtering your squishies, ignite to stop that champ with a ton of lifesteal from just getting all their health back. I could go on, but that isn't really the point. If you're only taking rally for lategame teamfights, then you're giving up on having a powerful spell for early game in exchange for something that might be useful once or two in pitched teamfights that occur within the range of it, whereas you could have a spell that was really handy the entire damn game.

All it takes is one won teamfight in late game for victory. Massive steroid helps with that.

Exhaust isn't useless late game per se, but cutting one of their champs' power for 3 seconds compared to providing a massive team-wide buff for 15 seconds seems to be of-no-comparison.

And, as said before, Rally isn't useless in lane.

And I was talking about how even though rally sucks compared to other summoner spells, much like some champs suck compared to other champs, you can at least play a champ anyway because it's fun to you. I don't really see how rally is 'fun' to have in the same way that playing Veigar might be more fun to someone than annie.

Seems you've made your mind up about rally anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm bothering.

I haven't 'made up my mind'. I'm making an argument, which you haven't yet countered.

[Anzekay]

I haven't 'made up my mind'. I'm making an argument, which you haven't yet countered.

Sure, cool, okay.

[John Doe]

Can't Rally be targeted by anything, and has like no health?

Kaden already listed a number of reasons why Rally isn't picked over other spells, and that's basically the point isn't it. It's not a matter that Rally is useless or not, because it is useful. However, it's not worth giving up the utility those other summoner spells offer over Rally. You give up escape mechanics, map awareness, debuffs or transportation in order to have a buff that only truly shines late game and only in an effective area and only if it's not targeted or accidentally destroyed by enemies.

[Anzekay]

650ish hp at level 18, doesn't have any armour or MR iirc. Cooldown is 270, only shorter than teleport, fortify and revive. Also the LoL wikia is telling me it's got an 850 range aura.

Also let's not forget that in order to get the 70 AP you have to go deep into the offense tree.

EDIT: Fairly neglegible, but it also goes away if you die part way through the duration.

[Waffuru]

I don't think it's not viable, it's just pretty situational. Good stat bonus, and minions picking up the bonus makes it even better against turrets. I think it's more interesting if you have hybrids on your team.

Yeah, exhaust and ignite are often better choices but you don't always need to bring 5 of each.

My big complaints on Rally are the 270 second cooldown and the shit stats on the flag itself. 15 armor and 650 health at 18? Don't think it's going to live long if there is any amount of AoE. Gotta use that 850 range on it to try to keep it out of the way.

I used to really like it with Taric's old ultimate pushing waves. Tiny super minions almost.

Rally: 35AD/70AP vs Baron: 40AD/40AP

[Jonathan Meer]

I think it would be an awesome spell to throw onto a support champion (especially a Taric or Sona), but, again, it runs into that problem of "is it worth giving up CV or Flash to have?" For most people, the answer is no.

That's fair enough. Hard to justify Rally over CV or Flash in most cases for Support.

Can't Rally be targeted by anything, and has like no health?

Kaden already listed a number of reasons why Rally isn't picked over other spells, and that's basically the point isn't it. It's not a matter that Rally is useless or not, because it is useful. However, it's not worth giving up the utility those other summoner spells offer over Rally. You give up escape mechanics, map awareness, debuffs or transportation in order to have a buff that only truly shines late game and only in an effective area and only if it's not targeted or accidentally destroyed by enemies.

Can't target a beacon if you're stunned. Mummy or Annie.

Dancing around, but not directly on top of beacon, makes it hard-to-hit.

Champions with built in escape mechanics (plank practically counts here, with the cleanse and crazy movespeed and movespeed buff) don't need one beyond Flash, and if someone else can grab CV, there's an extra slot for Rally.

650ish hp at level 18, doesn't have any armour or MR iirc. Cooldown is 270, only shorter than teleport, fortify and revive. Also the LoL wikia is telling me it's got an 850 range aura.

Yeah, 1000. Not 850. Not sure where I got 1000. Still, 850 is hardly negligible.

270 cooldown is a thing. I'm not saying the skill is god.

...

Hellz yeah to all of this post. Didn't even think of the synergy with hybrids.

This thread is a defense of Rally as absolutely legitimate, and in some situations, facemelting and gamechanging. Not a claim that Rally must be a part of all team comps.

[Waffuru]

650hp at level 18, 15 armor, 0 MR

Fixed.

edit: Should also be noted that the buff is based on caster's level.

[Anzekay]

cheers waff, I couldn't remember exactly as I've only seen it once and the wikia didn't have the info.

[Trygelan]

Yeah, exhaust and ignite are often better choices but you don't always need to bring 5 of each.

The thing is, you don't want 5 of each. Ideally, you'd want flash on everyone (flash OP), smite on the jungler, cv on the support, ignite on the ap mid, and exhaust on the ad bot. Top lane can utilize exhaust, ignite, or teleport based on enemy team comp.

Also, on the point that having the steroid vs exhausting one person, a lot of the time late game, you want to get that exhaust on their ad which is usually a LARGE majority of their damage. Also making it a lot harder for them to get away from you if you can get to them.

As for ignite vs. rally, if they have any kind of healer, or someone with a lot of lifesteal/spellvamp, ignite will always be better due to being able to reduce what they get healed by 50%.

As for the 650hp/15 armor thing, that's pretty much 1 shot from a late game carry. Yes you can place it behind your team, but that brings back my earlier point that they can just back off and right out of range, or 15 seconds later when it's gone. If it was mobile in some way, or had a lower cooldown I could see more of a case being made for it, as it is though, I feel it's just overshadowed by the other options.

[Ashe]

Its mostly an issue of this. I'll agree that Rally is a strong spell if you are in a vacuum scenario of a team fight in a specific location taking place there. There are a couple of points to make though. Wouldn't Flash give you better initiation ability? Wouldn't Ghost give you better positioning for that divide and conquer? What happens if the other team tries to just relocate the battle? I actually think its also destroyable, but I'm not certain.

But the main point is this: Over the course of the game, what is going to give you a more consistent advantage? Exhaust scales extremely well and late game is an amazing way to shut down their carry. That's not a small thing at all, because then you can blow that carry up by the lack of mobility or swap and blow up someone closer while your assassin (or person with Flash) has Exhausted said carry, keeping them from contributing much in that fight. Clairvoyance will give the team a massive advantage in the information war, allowing them to gain an incremental advantage in gold and levels entirely due to free ganks on people, free towers, avoiding ganks for free, all the things that make wards amazing. Ignite is mostly used as an early game method of dominating one's lane to get that last bit of damage, which tends to make or break when two opponents are of even damage, allowing one to gain a snowball over their laning opponent, which will slowly let them start bullying the lane to keep the opposing carry from using their sustain (given the heal debuff) and keeping them away from the wave, gaining more gold.

Essentially, there are only two characters you can actually justify taking it on - the tank or the support. A good amount of the time the tank is going to be a jungler of some kind, meaning Ghost and Smite (occasionally Flash and Smite), though he can also lane as a support (if he's top lane, he's most likely taking something like Exhaust and TP). So the support (even if its a tank doing it) would have to give up CV, or their second spell, normally a mobility spell or TP. Its not enough to justify doing that due to lack of consistency and how heavily situational it is.

Its not so much the problems that Heal and Clairity suffer (lack of power) and more the problems that Revive and Fortify suffer (extremely situational, require your team or strat to be built specifically around the character using it, short term effect that can be neutralized, etc).

If someone drops a Rally banner, first thought in my head is "counter initiate with a Janna or Gragas Ult, or cc them, etc" to reduce how long that effect will be in play.

If all of these things are removed, and we're looking at "the perfect scenario", then yeah, its a great game changer, but then we have to still say "but only as much as a Revive mandropping Pantheon counts as a sixth (seventh if there's a Yorick or Zilean) player in any team fight" is on par with it.