League of Legends

[Mal Nova]

Teemo...Ashe.... and Renekton Skins..... Hmmmm I have Ashe... do I has a Skin? and hmmmm *runs* to check the other two prices*

[Mal Nova]

I OWNS THESE GUYS NOW!!!!!

Amumu
Cho'Gath
Evelynn
Janna
Rammus
Teemo
Veigar
Zilean

I bought the Champions Pack.... These are who was in it

[Kaden]

This is disappointing. Like, three people were talking about a subject they find interesting and people all of a sudden get pissy about it? It wasn't even taking over the thread or anything. Good lord.

Part of taking taking games seriously as an artistic medium means looking at them with a critical eye towards their societal implications and representations. This isn't about trying to change society, Vad. I'm insulted that you think we're naive enough to have that goal in mind on a DBZ forum. It's about exploring the topic of sexism in something that hundreds of thousands of people are exposed to.

[Mal Nova]

Err... I wasn't mad. I've read most and glanced over everyone elses... I just don't care. I'll buy the skins for the champs I have if they are on sale and i want a Skin for every champion I have...Blame Trygelan... and all of you who kept saying skins all the time.

I'll wind up using the most expsensive/legendary/whichever one I enjoy most anyways in the end.

Whether its sexist or promoting sexism or not... is really not something I look at.

Sex sells as Anzekay said.

Lately they seem to be making more Legendary skins and holiday skins then sexual skins.

Will someone get upset if they make a seductress-esque legenerdary skin?

I am really actually lost as to the whole discussion. Well.. lol... OK..I could be chauvinist and say it started as soon as a female saw an opening... But this same female has been heard on mumble making near the same remarks as the guys<_< >_>

Still it boils down to the fact that the artists make what they assume the customer wants... Sex sells.... Muscled men sell...

I like my skinned champions....

But... lol.... Back to my thing.... I know it was a still profitable buy.... It's more champs to learn and more scary shit for me and everyone else.... any tips or sugestion of who I might like or hate?

[Vad]

This is disappointing. Like, three people were talking about a subject they find interesting and people all of a sudden get pissy about it? It wasn't even taking over the thread or anything. Good lord.

Part of taking taking games seriously as an artistic medium means looking at them with a critical eye towards their societal implications and representations. This isn't about trying to change society, Vad. I'm insulted that you think we're naive enough to have that goal in mind on a DBZ forum. It's about exploring the topic of sexism in something that hundreds of thousands of people are exposed to.

I implied you were naive and that wasn't my intention. I apologize. You can call it sexism, I'll call it marketing. Because of that I really have nothing more to say on the topic. My views side step everything mentioned in your discussion. Even though the post was worded like I was raging. I wasn't. Nor did I take into consideration the implications it might have had. (Suggesting people were naive). You're not.

Bottom line it really really annoys me when this kind of discussion is ignited over a video game. Combined with how I view society my resulting attitude towards a discussion like this is one of disgust.

Did that give me the right to get annoyed at you guys? No.

Forgive me. I forgot where I was. Among friends. Intelligent friends. Not random idiots on the internet.

[Jarka]

Related: http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-8-stupid...ns-sexism/

Holy cow, that is the best birthday present that Cracked could give me.

[Jonathan Meer]

Men do have more money than women. It makes sense to appeal to men's wallets

[Kaden]

I implied you were naive and that wasn't my intention. I apologize. You can call it sexism, I'll call it marketing. Because of that I really have nothing more to say on the topic. My views side step everything mentioned in your discussion. Even though the post was worded like I was raging. I wasn't. Nor did I take into consideration the implications it might have had. (Suggesting people were naive). You're not.

Bottom line it really really annoys me when this kind of discussion is ignited over a video game. Combined with how I view society my resulting attitude towards a discussion like this is one of disgust.

Did that give me the right to get annoyed at you guys? No.

Forgive me. I forgot where I was. Among friends. Intelligent friends. Not random idiots on the internet.

You have the right to get annoyed over whatever you want, they're your feelings.

Dismissing an issue outright because of X ("marketing," in this case) is what creates issues, though. No, we don't have to change the world or society or... anything, but when you want to say "oh it's just 'marketing'" is the most important time to look at that thought process critically.

I enjoy looking at stuff like this and I enjoy conversations like this because I take games seriously as an artistic medium. People are always talking about art and what it means and so on and so forth and I totally get how it reach that "...really?" point, but that still doesn't stop people from talking about it.

I guess I just don't get why so many people were trying to just shut down the conversation when it wasn't heated or out-of-control or... anything. Was sad to see it.

[Jarka]

I guess I just don't get why so many people were trying to just shut down the conversation when it wasn't heated or out-of-control or... anything. Was sad to see it.

Preach

[Jarka]

I am really actually lost as to the whole discussion. Well.. lol... OK..I could be chauvinist and say it started as soon as a female saw an opening... But this same female has been heard on mumble making near the same remarks as the guys<_< >_>

Mal, you're going to call me a hypocrite, actually read what I said. Also, have the gonads to actually call me out by name.

"This same female" has no issue with sexuality. She has no problems with sexuality in games or art. The problem arises when characters have little to no diversity in design, like when the only way women are portrayed is within a certain degree of conventional attractiveness. With very little exception, all of the ladies of the League are overly skinny white girls with giant breasts, often with schmexxy voiceovers and oodles of exposed skin.

THAT is why it's upsetting when they sexualize a non-sexual female champ.

If you enjoy a sexual skin, good for you. As you so astutely noted, I have too. My problem lies with the developers who refuse to step out of the comfort zone of the male gaze. I am allowed to enjoy something while simultaneously viewing it critically.

Unless, of course, this female is not allowed to voice her opinion on something that matters a great deal to her.

[Jonathan Meer]

Wow. Galio. Dude's a fucking brick in lane, and clears waves like rofl

[Tyr]

Get into game after a couple of losses. Winded up feelings on the team from mistakes on all parts, but we're pretty cool this game. I get up to my lane: Instant disconnect in front of the enemy Warwick, I simply can't move. I die, get back up there and I can move. I kill him. He comes back, I get it again. Super annoyed now. A chain of them playing really cocky gets me back in the game slightly, then I buy a blue elixir and Josh decides to land a sweet Maokai combo on 3 of them.

The rest is (my first) pentakill-history. <3


<picture courtesy of Meer>

[King B]

Get into game after a couple of losses. Winded up feelings on the team from mistakes on all parts, but we're pretty cool this game. I get up to my lane: Instant disconnect in front of the enemy Warwick, I simply can't move. I die, get back up there and I can move. I kill him. He comes back, I get it again. Super annoyed now. A chain of them playing really cocky gets me back in the game slightly, then I buy a blue elixir and Josh decides to land a sweet Maokai combo on 3 of them.

The rest is (my first) pentakill-history. <3


<picture courtesy of Meer>

Bitches be playin without meh

[Anzekay]

The thing that usually bugs me about sexualization in video games (or most media forms really) is when all that is important or recognizable about the character is their overtly sexual rendering. If a character is so shallow that the only thing they represent is female/male sexuality then I honestly find it to be a pathetic and boring character to have anything to do with. It just doesn't strike me as interesting.

So when I play a game or watch a movie or anime or whatever and see a character that is purely walking fanservice, a big part of me rolls my eyes and puts a black mark against it. I'd much rather see some actual depth in a plain looking, fully covered female character than a really hot scantily clad character who is ridiculously shallow.

And frankly, League of Legends is brimming with attractive, scantily clad female characters. Luckily this game's story and characters aren't what interests me. It does amuse me though, that some of their best splash art of female characters is generally the ones with lots of clothes on (Battle Leona, Ironscale Shyvana- even if it is a skintight suit of armour- just to name a couple).

[Kaden]

The thing that usually bugs me about sexualization in video games (or most media forms really) is when all that is important or recognizable about the character is their overtly sexual rendering. If a character is so shallow that the only thing they represent is female/male sexuality then I honestly find it to be a pathetic and boring character to have anything to do with. It just doesn't strike me as interesting.

100% agree. Sexuality should be part of a character, not their sole defining characteristic (assuming, of course, the character is designed to have any actual substance and not just be thrown away).

What Jarka said about lazy design is absolutely correct. As people have said: sex sells. Any easy design is to throw a big-titted blonde into a chainmail bikini, give her a sword, and call it a day. Maybe make her a redhead if you're feeling particularly inspired.

I guess that's really what bothers me about these past couple pages of threads. When people say stuff like "they're trying to make money, of course they'll make nonstop sexiness" they're telling the designers and artists that lazy design is ok and will be overlooked. (That sounds more pointed than it's intended to be. I just want to point out how one thought process leads to another, even subconsciously.)

Of course this extends to any medium where artistic direction plays a big role, but video games are still in their formative years as one of those mediums and they're being set up to get some very easy passes. They shouldn't.

[Anzekay]

Well here's the thing. You can make sexy looking characters and it will appeal to quite a lot of people, even if it's something they don't conciously recognise, and you'll sell a lot of games/skins/characters/whatever that way. Or you can make a sexy looking character with a lot of depth and really good writing and stuff, and maybe sell a little bit more, for a lot more effort.

What's the big thing that is driving the bigwigs with briefcases who own most of the game dev studios in the world? Money. Make something that will sell well and doesn't cost too much to do it, and call it a day. Putting in that extra effort to make something polished just doesn't appeal to buisness folk these days.

It's a trend I'd love to see end, but I honestly have no idea what can be done about it right now.

[Kaden]

Yeah, exactly. That bit about the chainmail bikini, I was being serious. Why go to more effort than if you don't need to? Simple profit motive, there.

They don't need to because people just go for it. People just go for it because they don't care that it's lazy design as long as it's visually appealing. As long as people don't care, it will continue to happen.

It won't ever "end." Games will eventually settle in exactly the same artistic space that movies are in right now. Will people go see a movie with bouncing tits and giant explosions? Hell yeah we will. The difference, right now, is that people are willing to look at such a movie with enough of a critical eye to be able to say "yeah it was just explosions and tits and the rest was garbage." People don't really do that with games. Games, sadly, also cost $60 and dozens of hours before you know whether or not it's garbage.

It's easy to see that games are trending in a "good" direction, though. Look at EA. They do nothing but push they're "this is what people like, right?" marketing campaigns and people are sick of it. They see through it and they're tired of it. Eventually that unwillingness to put up with non-stop shit will spread in a positive way.

[Anzekay]

Alyx Vance is still my favorite Female video game character to date. Valve put a ridiculously amount of effort in to not only making her physically attractive (in a very subtle, very real kind of way) but also gave her fantastic character development and managed to build an actual emotional bond between the player and the character (in most cases, at least). She, along with a handful of other female characters out there (femshep should spring to mind, of course) are shining examples of how excellent characters can be both tastefully attractive and complex characters without giving up anything on either side of the equation.

It's just a shame that the significance of those characters is lost on most people who play vidja games, and that they are such an insignificant minority of female characters.

WTB HL3

[Jonathan Meer]

The thing Krig isn't telling you is that it was a 4v5. I was nowhere near the fight. Global ultied, but beyond that, full 4v5.

And it wasn't like they were underfed or anything either. It was just straight pwnage.

[Piper Juunanagou]

On the topic of ladies in video games, anyone remember the Tomb Raider lady? Laura Croft was originally designed as a counter to stereotypical females in video games. Laura Croft. Y'know, the chick with the Daisy Dukes and breasts larger than her head. She was also apparently Hispanic originally. Either way, the remake looks cool. Here's to hoping it has some substance.

As for League of Legends, yea, that game was good stuff.