The Like/Hate Thread

[John Doe]

Like: Game Grumps. Just all of it.

[Shun]

I think the love is still here. Time is an issue and people just don't want to waste it if its not being rewarded. Whether that reward is in terms of attention or anything else. It's just a whole cycle of monkey see monkey do unfortunately. A bunch of people heard about a possible new DA and were all, "I'm in" then as soon as it fell through they disappeared along with it.

Now even though Sandy fucked up shop for me on multiple levels I'm still willing to support this movement in any way I can. I know I haven't been the most consistent and my position has never really been authoritative but I'd like to believe that every opinion counts. Some new direction would definitely help.

NPC's are a great idea. An ideal way to restore the prestige that should belong to certain abilities. Like when we would log on and see a super saiyan or a person with kaioken and be like "I can't wait till I can write enough to earn that." Nowadays abilities like that are just handed to those with the enough xp. Sure easier presents itself as more appealing but the things most worth our time never are easy.

I can't speak for everyone but when I would write I'd stay up until the sun was rising. Post once or twice then open up photoshop. Just chat online, sleep or maybe not then go to school or work and do it again. It was important enough then because yeah I was younger but it was also more engaging. There was always something new, something changing. Whether it was content or discussions. GFX work or rp ideas. Even the role plays themselves.

We all know where chubbs is going if it follows its current trajectory and frankly, I don't think any of us want that. So lets get this ball rolling. Let us restore chubbs to its former glory and beyond that. If a site like the sueniverse can see success than nothing can stop the plethora of creativity that is the very spirit of chubbs.

[Kayne]

Personal opinions aside, it's Josh's decision about taking over things. I don't really have any say in that.

Is there a better way of getting a hold of him other than AIM or here? I have sent him messages for various reasons for a very long time and never get any responses, and I don't think he hardly ever visits here.

[Kaden]

I'll tell him to check his messages next time we're on LoL.

[Kayne]

Thank you, Mario.

[King B]

@Kayne: If the staff is k with you taking it over then so am I. The only thing I'd suggest is keep this system - it works - but ditch the DBZ; it's dead. The system already exists (for all intents and purposes) as its own standalone universe anyway; the DBZ part seems more and more shoehorned in.

I mean, even most of our custom characters were a deliberate step away from the source material; many of our characters don't even have any of the same abilities or atmospheres of the show/manga.

[Kayne]

I hope this does pan out, I am pretty excited at the prospect. One thing I am afraid of is changing TOO much and alienating everybody and just basically killing the place off completely. But, time, patience, and input as it is all tweaked up is all we can do till things pick up.

[Kaden]

So, out of curiosity, what do you think will get people to actually RP again?

[Super Buu]

Hate: that moment when your crush is going on a date with some dude. All my hate.

[Kayne]

So, out of curiosity, what do you think will get people to actually RP again?

I'll be realistic and say that I cannot actually force people to write. You can lead a horse to water, as they say, but you can't make them drink; however, I think I might be able to make it a little more...tastier? Is that a good word?

To be honest, I am not entirely sure what combination of tactics will revive this place. We might not even get back to our former glory, however, the one thing that makes me hopeful is that some of the community still remains, and I think that there could be potential in those that left being attracted back by something a little different and accommodating to whatever their time schedules and motivations allow.

There are a few different things that I am going to try, from the aesthetic (board upgrade to 4.2, which I have experimented with with a very old copy of this forum that I was given for the archive site, and was successful with. This is what I had in mind. Simple, clean.) to some content changes. I think Jason had a good point that the DBZ part is dead (or at least not really an integral part of the RPG anymore), but we still have many elements that are very much DBZish that I think can still fit, even if we minimize what we have even further. A vast majority of what we have now is already customized, although we do still utilize elements from that universe (planets like Vegetasei, Nameksei, etc., scouters, things like this). I would like to continue using some of these elements, as they aren't necessarily bad, and I think their removal would be detrimental rather than helpful.

Specifically, I want to add things that will help those who want to write, but have a very difficult time getting started on their own. What we had before the turnover a few years ago was great: we had the NPCs that were the primary source of gaining new techniques, as well as a host of premade quests that writers could pick from and earn a set amount of rewards. That particular feature is what I miss the most. I feel it not only set up a framework to go off of when dry on ideas, it also gave some incentive when there is some idea of what the rewards were, as well as what level of effort should be put into the quest. The ultimate goal is to get people reading through these things and get inspired. It can be very difficult for some people to generate an idea of which to write, and I think giving them something to go off of would be very beneficial. Regular quest updates and quest chains could yield unique rewards that could bring in some desire to write and earn them (weaponry, armor, things like this, although these particular features I am still trying to hash out, as they haven't really been an important part of the game in some time now).

Regular updating, trying to aim for a goal of rolling out a few new quests per month, perhaps a new NPC or something of that caliber with each month's (or every few weeks) update, a schedule of major events that happen at specific times of the year (for example, Dante's Abyss in late Spring/Early Summer, Friend of Foe or some incarnation in Late Summer/Early Fall, and perhaps two other events that are not so death-heavy in late fall/early winter and late winter/early spring). If there aren't very many writers to do so, that's fine. It can still be done, just might not be super long. The major events can run for a week or two so that they aren't overlapping with other events, and when scheduled at expected periods of time, should allow people to accommodate for them rather than having them suddenly sprung on them in the middle of a storyline.

Regular updating, I think, would give the impression that we are at least trying to remain fresh; it is a cornerstone of any successful business or website: if you're going to attract or retain your customers, you have to give them something to look forward to, and introduce new things to keep their interest. Keep them guessing about what is coming next.

I do not want to get rid of all the hard work that has been previously put in before, but I do want to expand upon it, revise it. I am not sure if I can bring over the combat points system, mainly because I do not know what level of customization that has been put into it, and how flexible it is to change. Also, I am not sure if the mod that was used for that current feature is even compatable with the new board, although I have found that it was updated not too long ago. I am looking into that now and seeing if it will still be able to fit in, because I do like that particular feature.

For future consideration, I was thinking of implementing "levels" with unlockables. For example, a person gains so much XP or combat ability points, and gains a 'level'. A level 3 character would unlock the ability to go train with, say, Lord Vine, and learn metal binding. A level 10 character could unlock Spirit Bomb or some equivalent high-level ability, and be able to train for it through an NPC. For items, perhaps a level 5 could unlock the ability to add SONAR or something to their scouter (which is something I would keep, along with the LENS, the smaller, much more compact version of the bulky headset, and that also contains features not found with the scouter, such as heat detection and the capability of being physically augmented into the person via implants).


Long story short: Improve upon what we have, reintroduce old concepts that worked (and also catered to those who have a difficult time coming up with ideas by providing a basic framework to go off of), and regular updating to keep things fresh, and give writers something to look forward to. It is not a complete list of things I want to do, but just things off the top of my head that I could definitely see being done.

[Super Buu]

My main irk with the site and system has remained the same for a long-ass time. I am not, nor will I ever, write as much as some other folks. That puts me in a position where I am a Yamcha. That's fun for Goku and Trunks and Vegeta. As for me, eh, I could struggle to write as much OR I could go play Guild Wars 2.

So if you do take over Laura, that'd be my #1 suggestion. It's not really a matter of labor since there's been a billion implementable suggestions over the past three years about how to do it. If you take over, and want that done, just gimme the word. I think the rest of the system is pretty sweet and doesn't need a huge amount of changing, but like you said having stuff happening is the main thing. New stuff.

I won't make any illusions of ever coming back to full activity myself because, with the occasional exception, my writing power is going towards my book, but it'd be nice to be able to dip my toes in from time to time.

[Kayne]

I am not really sure I get what you are saying, Greg. If I understand, you are saying that those who do not write will be much weaker in comparison to those that do? I can understand that. It is something I didn't quite think about. It would be interesting to just not have stats altogether, or a power level/combat level. What I was talking about there at the end would just be really for unlocking specific abilities and training with NPCs, not really for showing off who is the strongest, numbers/power levels wise. I think that those particular sets of data just have never really fit with a play by post roleplaying game like this. That's just me, anyways. There will always be strengths and weaknesses with every character, but I think that having someone who likes to write a lot beat the bejesus out of someone who can only write a few times a month is just ridiculous. If you want to write a lot and rack up points and gain some levels so you can go train for elemental ki, that's cool, but if you just want to go at your own pace without the fear of being overshadowed by someone whose been around for a month or two and dwarfed you level/points-wise, that's cool too. I would like to see points taking a more meaningful role, especially for the format of game we have.

[Super Buu]

Yeah basically just make it so that it's a more level playing field. For illustration, the starting CA on Chubbs last I checked was like 500, and we have someone like Victoria who was ... 30,000? Before transformations? I forget.

I won't go into specific methods because it's kinda premature right now, and that could be a big discussion. But if you do get to take over the site, and think it's a good idea, I can help you come up with something good and I'm sure there are others who're willing to give input too.

[Kayne]

Yeah basically just make it so that it's a more level playing field. For illustration, the starting CA on Chubbs last I checked was like 500, and we have someone like Victoria who was ... 30,000? Before transformations? I forget.

I won't go into specific methods because it's kinda premature right now, and that could be a big discussion. But if you do get to take over the site, and think it's a good idea, I can help you come up with something good and I'm sure there are others who're willing to give input too.

I gotcha.

I think that there were a lot of good ideas when the current or a previous version of the CA system came out, and was founded on some good ideas, but just with any system, it can have its flaws. I just hate seeing someone who posts really awesome shit, but not very often, get shorted. I hate the idea of quantity over quality getting rewarded. Case and point: When the CA system came out, and some time shortly after, a certain player, whom I will not name out of respect, came out of near inactivity, posted a shit load of roleplays that, for the most part, weren't anything that really stood out, made their way up to the top part (not necessarily the very tip top) and fizzled out, and yet remained in the top quarter of writers for some time, while others who popped out quality posts remained mid-level or lower. I think they switched characters or something, so they're not there any longer. But point being, there were plenty of other writers who I think deserved to be recognized for their quality rather than how many words you can cram into a post and climb up this ladder of power. The sad fact of the matter is, people like to be 'on top', and will pump out something that is mediocre at best just to get those points. Removing that particular aspect and replacing it with something similar to what I suggested, where levels are merely a measure of unlocking different abilities and such, doesn't necessarily make any one particular player stronger than another simply because they write more and thus, accumulate XP faster. In some cases, having a high CA doesn't fit with the character. What good is having 100000 CA when your character is just a cop that hops from doughnut shop to doughnut shop, and whose biggest exertion is chasing down criminals?

I would love input from everybody who cares on what would and would not be something that could help this game.

[Super Buu]

I think really it's just better to think that the outcome of any given fight, competition or whatever is decided based on who does better during it. Not decided beforehand based on number comparison. I think everyone can agree that on such a creative site, that's silly, and it's why half the time during the sagas we started saying "CA doesn't matter".

I like the idea of, like you said, unlocks mainly being in the form of sidegrades and increased versatility rather than pure power. I firmly believe that unlocking stuff is awesome, getting stronger is awesome, and that we can have those incentives while making it so that you don't NEED them to compete. There's a happy medium.

tl;dr: 10% OF SAIYANS HAVE 90% OF THE CA

[Kaden]

I think the counter-argument is equally valid. If it's a game, with stats and progression, why is it fair for someone who posts once a month to be at the same level as someone who posts three times a week?

You can not create a completely balanced system with something like this, that combines elements of talent with simple stats. Your choices then become how to reward what and what should be kept in/left out.

I've always felt like the stat-based, competitive part of the RPG made things more engaging and interesting to the writers. Even with the stats, the RPG has never been about PvP. Yeah, there have been times where someone could've walked around and just one-shot every other member, but that's never happened. Ever.

Personally, I think the people who accumulated the most "power" in the game are the people that were willing to prioritize playing it over doing something else. People talk about only wanting to make quality posts and that's why they don't write as much, but that falls flat to me. Look at the people who have been at the top. They've always been people who write quality posts and want to put more time into this than something else. Maybe other people don't have as much time, maybe other people want to do other things, there are a lot of reasons for it to seem unfair. It is unfair. It's also unfair to diminish those efforts by saying their posts weren't that great and they only cared about word count.

With one exception, I genuinely don't think there's been anyone here who has made posts just so they've put down more words than someone else.

This got kind of tangential. Sorry for that.

My point was eventually going to be that, when looking at the intended path of development for players in a game, consistency is very important. Decide what you want to reward, stick to that, and keep an eye on the player's progress. Here, for example, the XP rate-of-gain was adjusted after a couple months to fit more appropriately with how we wanted characters to progress.

[Super Buu]

I think the question is, if people are writing not because of CA but because they enjoy the writing, why is it necessary to make them ridiculously powerful as a reward?

This is basically an age-old debate, casual vs. hardcore. And before that it's a basic political, ideological debate (think welfare). And there will always be people mad that someone got what they got for less effort (look at the WoW forums, where people are constantly raging for catering to 'casual scum'; also, coincidentally, the most successful game of all time). No, it's not fair on those people who put the time in. But is doing right by those players worth losing all your other players? There's no 'right' answer, but I can tell you which solution is going to make a more popular site.

[Kaden]

WoW has also spent years providing ways for people who put in the most time to gain the most powerful gear.

I didn't post to provide a "right" answer. I posted to provide a side of the argument that was not being represented.

[Super Buu]

*nod*

[Ashe]

Makes me feel strange as no adjustments to the system at this point will or will not direct me to roleplay (or not roleplay). I haven't spent my XP yet (any of it, other than the power up for story reasons) specifically due to it not fitting right for my character's story just yet. I've considered wanting to write some more for her even recently, but life is not giving me that right now. If I do write, it will be because I found the time and motivation to do so. I want to spend the xp and develop her, but I'm not concerned in any way with Combat Level. I haven't stopped writing due to others being seen as too strong to bother trying because I know that, with current perspectives being what they are, that list is entirely meaningless for anything beyond a way to accurately describe the difficulty your character has while fighting someone, even if the end result is a triumphant slaughter. I don't really believe there is any true fix to any of it other than having a new generation of writers join that don't feel uncomfortable with the status quo of the veterans, which is a very common issue that message boards deal with as older users gain more and more popularity within the community. Newer members can frequently feel alienated and simply choose to go somewhere else that is a bit newer out of fear of "competing with the in-crowd" or to avoid site hazing and being told "get thicker skin" when complaining. What stops me from writing is me not doing so. If I have a problem with the mechanics of CDBZ, then there is always Anyria. If I dislike elements of it too, then there is always the option of me asking for Administrative permission to run my own RPG hub within the site using all the elements that I think will be amazing and then seeing how that turns out. There is even the option to write on another site with an entire new group of people, which I also do not do anymore (when I previously had been active on around 5-7 sites during High School, though I can't remember them all). All of these options are great and offer lots of creative freedom for me (ideas I've entertained for a while, even years) but ultimately have failed to deliver on.

A lot of it is likely due to dedicating a large portion of my time for many years to writing for these things and now choosing intentionally to dedicate that time to other options that I sacrificed on for the sake of doing so. I've done the exact same thing with regards to WoW as well (in that I've tried to catch up on all kinds of other games with that free time that I never played due to spending my time on WoW). When faced with the decision of "Sacrifice these new directions of life to return to the website focused writing life, or experience all these new things while pushing to improve my life and try to create a family and relocate", I've chosen the latter as a personal choice while fondly reflecting on (and occasionally revisiting) the former (to note the roleplay I made randomly maybe a year ago closing up that loose end with Sage -the character-).