The Sum of our Inaction

[Raditzu]

Who were you talking to, 17?

[Hellfighter 17]

First part to Minoshia, second to general public. I didn't see your post when I posted and didn't edit in "Minoshia;" when I edited. =/

[Ruhiel]

Okay buddy let me put it this way.

Within the next few decades, a worldwide pandemic not seen since the fucking Black Plague is gonna sweep across this planet. Why? Because diseases are evolving. Many diseases we once believed to be "cured" are now back and immune to our "cures." Sure, we can resort to more powerful medicines for a time, but we're only putting off the inevitable. Eventually, nothing will stop these diseases, and then where are we? Feeling the power of these evolved diseases. Hell, even the common cold would be deadly at that point.

However, I NEVER said HIV/AIDS didn't deserve funding. Like hell they do! But they aren't as pressing right now. Because they can't evolve, and they can only spread in one way.

What I would like to say though, is if we're going to be looking for a way to beat AIDS/HIV, we need to look to a non-medicinal cure. Do what all life is doing around us. Evolving and making themselves immune to the other diseases. More or less, I'm in favor of genetic alteration (which is very different from stem cells and abortion, before some of you all think that's what I'm supporting).

[Raditzu]

You guys are just going to get Koola yelling at you again for getting off track.

[Ruhiel]

Yeah, sorry. I just don't like having words that I didn't say put in my mouth.

Poverty is probably a more deadly killer than these diseases are. If you don't have enough money to buy food, who cares if you're ill? You'll die of starvation before the disease gets you. If we all did chip in just a dollar, these people could get the very necessities of life they're lacking.

[Hellfighter 17]

The black plague is still around, too. =( Well, at least the bubonic third of it. =\

Yea, diseases are definitely evolving. I've heard this from multiple people who are very intellectual, and I concur with it as well. Look at molecules and how they could evolve into us? If we can come from a 'simple' molecule, why can't bacteria evolve into the shiznit?

Basically, nature is out to get us, and all we're doing is puttin' the plastic armour in the way. =/

[Ruhiel]

Oh, and just in case, I hope I didn't sound nasty to you Minoshia. It's just that sometimes I kinda fly off the handle if people try and say I said something that I didn't (if that made any sense). Basically, I wasn't trying to say HIV/AIDS don't matter, I was just focusing more on the "look to the future" attitude.

Okay, yeah, I'll be quiet about the disease thing now.

[Kami]

Originally posted by Koola
You've missed the point.

The point is we do nothing.

People die because we do nothing.

And yet, we continue to do nothing.

[Raditzu]

Originally posted by Kami

Originally posted by Koola
You've missed the point.

The point is we do nothing.

People die because we do nothing.

And yet, we continue to do nothing.

And this thread doesn't change any of that. Point the finger all you want, but someone who doesn't practice what they're telling other people to do is little more than a hypocrite.

[Vegeta]

Very true.

I've turned the spotlight to inaction. Much more then most can say.

I will continue to fight the good fight.

This is a call to arms! Let's go.

[Raditzu]

What people need is not a spotlight, but direction. There are plenty of people out there who would be more than willing to give the donation, but lack the interest to figure out where their doantion should go to. Frankly, I wouldn't know where I would start looking if I suddenly wanted to donate money. I suppose I would first look into the Red Cross. But then I'd be worried about where my money was going and what kind of plans they had to help people and so on and so forth. That's work. Life lesson here:

Lazy > work

Like I said before, if you really want to take some initiative and get the ball rolling povide people some links to places where they can donate. List some organizations that are looking for help. Hell, even just a couple sites that provide numbers for AIDS victims, or poverty levels would be a step in the right direction.

[Vegeta]

I wasn't really trying to solve these things. I just wanted people to do something. Pick a cause you believe in and support it. I'm all but disgusted with people who ignore things that are wrong so they don't feel bad that they only wear a pair of shoes once.

And I cannot expect people to accept the blame if I won't.

[Raditzu]

A couple other things, then, that wouldn't hurt to point out. The first, and most obvious, is that no one reading these forums wears shoes only once. I agree that that's disgusting. The second one is more a technique thing that anything else. In your post, you start out using "we" or "you and I" but only for the first eight sentences or so, if that. From then on its nothing but "you" "you" "you". If you're trying to get people, yourself included, to accept blame, then accusing them specifically is a bad way to go about doing it. It makes readers feel attacked or as if they need to defend themselves. They then start either completely ignoring your logic, or breaking it apart with whatever passes for rationalization within their own minds. If you continue to use the "we" pronoun, you start to generate a mroe sympathetic feeling within the reader. They feel your plight and want to connect with it, instead of feeling defensive. Regardless of how good someone's logic may be, its completely moot if their reader shuts down.

Frankly, that's what I did when I read your post. I felt attacked and stopped caring. Sure, I understand the gravity of the situation and so on and so forth, but why should I care? Because you tell me to? We both know I'm too stubborn for that to work. It was very much not clear that you considered yourself part of the problem until one of the very last sentences. The rest of the time it simply gave off this "I'm above this" sort of vibe.

My two cents, take it or leave it. I hate to see good points ruined because of something as silly as a pronoun.

[Vegeta]

That was the compliant I got when my Dad read it. In fact, most people upon reading it replied instantly with a defense for themselves. "Oh, well, it's not my fault!"

No one wants to be the sole cause of all the world's problems. So for me to provide perfectly logical reason as to why they are, they get a little pissy.

[Raditzu]

Well, like you said in your post, its pretty much everyone's fault. You're a part of everyone too.

There is no sole cause for the world's problem. Or a country's problems. Or even a city's problems. Its unfair and unreasonable to place the blame with one person. That person being your reader.

[Old Dave]

Look, how many times does it need to be said, everyone has their own opinon's, it's going to differ, there is no wrong or right here it's a rather broad topic with alot of opinion and fact clashing together. Point is the world is fucked up and unfair, that is how it is always going to be no matter what we do. It is the human nature to fight, to be greedy, to ignore others problems so long as they themselves are unaffected. Sure it's unfair, but the world just does not give a shit what is fair and unfair.

Like Hellfighter 17 said in one of his sigs. No one dies a virgin, life screws us all.

Oh how true. Now sure maybe someone can make a small difference here and there, but it will never be enough to solve the problems facing this world, and that is all there is to it.

[Raditzu]

Originally posted by Bido
NOTE TO RAD: Where you talking about Koola's post from an essay point or what? I couldnt tell because hes saying 'we have to do something', which is an attempt at spreading an idea. If you are contesting that him 'pointing the finger' and not 'doing anything' is whats gong on, then you shouldnt. By him posting this, hes already taking a step that most people never have.

The only thing I was doing was playing Devil's Advocate. Koola made some good points, but could have made them better. He let some writting choices obscure what he was trying to get at.

In all honesty, I don't really give a rat's ass about any of this, but I think Koola should at least be willing to go through and provide more than an essay before he tells everyone else that they're the cause of poverty and AIDS. Look at those Red Cross commercials you see on TV. They say the same thing (more or less, bear with me) and then provide you with contact information if you want to give money. What Koola's done is little more than use the shock value of some statistics to raise alarm about something.

I don't really see this as much of a step at all. I could post that I wanted to go to the moon and, by your logic, I'd be one step closer to having done it because I posted it. I pointed out that people feel attacked because that gets them to undermine Koola's points and logic with flimsy rationalization and keep them from seeing what his post is really about. Its not something that should be dismissed with a "pft" and a wave of the hand.

[Banned Dana]

Originally posted by Raditzu
I wasn't talking to anyone in particular with my post, I was simply stating a generaliztion. Personally, I don't really care, myself. Call me cold, or black-hearted, or a flat our asshole, doesn't change how I feel.

I'm kind of with Raddy on this one.

In all honesty, why do we need AIDS reseach? Because people don't take the nessassary precautions, meaning, that they dug their own grave. Do I believe that AIDs reseach is a good thing, yes, for those born with it or raped, or any other unforunate accidents, it's a good thing, but to treat those that have free range sex, no. It's stupid, if they don't care about their bodies then, why do we have to pay for it now?

Originally posted by Minoshia
May i stress main attention, mankind can focus on more then two, or three, damned things at once. We can throw a shitload of money, (or you seem to think none at all would be a better approac) at the Avian Flu and develop a cure quickly, and save millions of lives. But why can't we also put money into helping fight Aids. 40 million people, the maximum that died in 1918 influenza, have it today. (as Koola stated) but the total deaths related to and directly caused by HIV/AIDS are uncountable. Way more then anyone has predicted for the Avian Flu. To say that we should not put funding into finding a cure for HIV/AIDS, is downright ignorant and stubborn. You are completely looking over one of the, if not the biggest, killer of mankind in the last 30 years. We need to find a cure for HIV/AIDS as soon as we can.

As for the Avian Flu, I'm totally with Minoshia on that one...more research needs to bound into that one and quickly.

[Old Dave]

Koola what have you started >.>

[Old Dave]

Bai Bai

EDIT: Look, Koola started this as an intellegent conversation trying to express his opinion, but over the course of three pages it has been degraded into a bitch fest. Sorry Koola.