Omg

[The Not Cool Not Tapion]

Don't be a dummy, cum on her tummy.

Dumbass.

[Toshiro]

Dude, I only say this. Be there for your girl the whole time. My sisters had two of them, both basiclly forced upon her form the bf. She was an emtional wreck both times, neither of which he was there for. You either go with her and sit with her for the whole thing, I will find you and bitch slap the hell outta you.

[Violet]

Adoption, yo. Why take away another couple who can't have children's chances at having a beautiful baby? Abortion is just, horrible. In my opinion, it should only be used if the pregnancy was a result of a rape or it will endanger the mother's life. Other than that...

I guess everyone has their own set of morals.

[Super Buu]

I agree with everything Violet and MC said. I could never kill my son/daughter, no matter how unprepared I was. But yeah, since I've never been in the situation I can't really preach about it. Only you and your girlfriend can make the decision.

If you do decide to go through with it, support her. Don't do the instinctual thing and 'get the hell out of there', prove to her that you're a man.

[Burter Jr]

This has no reason for the mature tag.

[Super Buu]

Originally posted by Burter Jr
This has no reason for the mature tag.

I would say abortion, especially when concerning one very close to you, would be a very mature subject, up there with suicide.

[The Not Cool Not Tapion]

You could have eaten it. Bastard.

[Celipa]

I honestly have no opinions on abortion. I'm 14, and therefore probably don't value a human life the way I should. I've always believed that a child is your responsibility. Even at my young age, if I somehow got a girl pregnant, I would take responsibility and raise the child, even if it meant throwing my life away. Others decisions regarding abortion, I don't judge them by it.

[Tobias]

Originally posted by Burter Jr
This has no reason for the mature tag.

Now this if he's being serious, and if your being serious by saying that.

Then what constitutes a mature tag if not something like this? Unwanted pregnancy is way up there on the charts of "oh shit". His choices: Abortion and adoption, to raise it even if thier not ready. All these choices affect the very life of the child and the parents. What choice could be much more mature?

[Hellfighter 17]

I agree with the above d00ds about the maturity of the tag, and I'm going to have to ask that people like Tapion stop spamming such a place or risk warnage.

[Android-18]

Now no one shoot me but...

I believe that it is not really killing something...I mean yeah, it's sperm and egg, begining to grow, but they usually abort it at 3 months. Do you remember anything when you were 3 months from conception? I don't even think it has fingers and toes. I think that unless it LOOKs and can THINK, it isn't horrible.

My mom believes in fate, and if that baby is meant to be yours, the soul will go back and return when you are ready. (don't laugh or flame this)

I think you are both strong in doing what you think is right. I know that if I got preganant I'd likely do the same. I couldn't as easily give it up for adoption, anyone who is a mother here will know the bond you'll have with your baby. I know I'd go looking for him/her and it would be painful. I'd rather let it go before it can think and grow and end up being something I will love more than anything, and before he/she can hate me if they found out what I did, by giving them away.

I'm for anything, really, and I just don't think what you're doing is wrong. Don't let anyone call you a murderer. Be there for your girl, let her know you understand how she feels, and comfort her. She WILL have children, and perhaps my mom is right, maybe the soul of this unborn child will return. Who knows?

Man this really should be on the Kame House.

[Krillin]

Originally posted by Android-18
Now no one shoot me but...

I believe that it is not really killing something...I mean yeah, it's sperm and egg, begining to grow, but they usually abort it at 3 months. Do you remember anything when you were 3 months from conception? I don't even think it has fingers and toes. I think that unless it LOOKs and can THINK, it isn't horrible.

So, if it doesn't look like a person, it's sub-human? What's the basis for that? At what point would a baby look enough like a person for it to matter?

Regarding the thought idea, it's baloney. At conception, the cells are reproducing themselves so as to create a brain for this child. If left unchecked, it would create this brain. If it would reach this conclusion, and you destroy it before it can reach that conclusion, it's just as bad as destroying the brain itself.

My mom believes in fate, and if that baby is meant to be yours, the soul will go back and return when you are ready. (don't laugh or flame this)

How can we know? What's the basis for that line of thought? Where's the evidence supporting that? What facts have you seen to support that? I assume there are none, unless you're gifted by some sort of scientific overflow of knowledge. For that reason, that line of ideas is simply speculation. We can't apply it at all to reality without anything to support it.

I think you are both strong in doing what you think is right.

I agree. Murdering defenseless babies who literally have nowhere to run is heroic and laudable.

I know that if I got preganant I'd likely do the same. I couldn't as easily give it up for adoption, anyone who is a mother here will know the bond you'll have with your baby.

Then don't have sex. If you aren't willing to deal with the consequences, don't do the deed. It isn't the baby's fault you were irreponsible. Don't blame it by killing it.

I know I'd go looking for him/her and it would be painful. I'd rather let it go before it can think and grow and end up being something I will love more than anything, and before he/she can hate me if they found out what I did, by giving them away.

I'd rather have been allowed to live in someone else's care than killed by my own mother.

I'm for anything, really, and I just don't think what you're doing is wrong. Don't let anyone call you a murderer. Be there for your girl, let her know you understand how she feels, and comfort her. She WILL have children, and perhaps my mom is right, maybe the soul of this unborn child will return. Who knows?

How isn't it murder?

Man this really should be on the Kame House.

I pray it won't be. I'm too passionate on this subject to wait a year for discussion.

Originally posted by Jeice

Also, the law does not consider it actual murder unless the child is out of the womb and cries/takes it's first independent breath.

The law is not an infallible source of truth and knowledge. Incestuous marriages are legal in the state of Alabama. In North Carolina, it is illegal to sing off-key. In Tennessee, you are not legally entitled to use a lasso to catch a fish. You may not grow thistles in a Maryland garden. Getting the idea?

On a final note, I must say that I'm entirely pissed off at Tap right now. This is obviously a sensitive issue, yet you're making crass, ignorant statements. It isn't funny. It isn't proper. Grow up.

[Ruhiel]

Oh boy. Abortion. What a touchy subject. I can't take a serious stance on myself, as I'm torn between what I think is morally right, and what my religion tells me to be right.

Krillin and 18 both hold good points. However, both lack concrete proof for both of their claims. No one will ever be able to know when, if you believe in this, the child in the womb becomes "human" or has a soul. Both of you can argue all day long for your sides, and while I'd like to be able to take a stand on one of them, you wouldn't be able to convince me. If you try to say that it's not a living thing immediately upon conception, well, then you're wrong. It IS alive, and it is growing. However, if you try to tell me that it is instantly human at that state, I'm going to say you're wrong too. It isn't human at that point, not because it doesn't "look" human, but because it has yet to develop to a point that if it were to be born that exact moment, it would be able to survive.

Nevertheless, I'm against abortion. I don't listen to some of the extremist stuff they're tying in with it, but I don't think you should do it. That baby doesn't deserve to have no chance at life. However, I also think it should have a happy life, and not one where they live in constant struggle.

Crap, I've made myself even more indecisive on this issue. I guess the only thing I AM certain about is that you should always use a condom or some other form of contraceptive if you don't want a child. If you don't do this, then it's kinda your fault for this, don't take away the life of what can eventually become a baby.

[Krillin]

On this note, I'm a strong proponent of abstinence. Your chance of getting STDs, including AIDS, while following abstinence until marriage is 0.001%. Your chance of having a baby you don't want is pretty much left to rape. Beyond all that, you'll have a gift to give your marriage partner that is special beyond belief.

I'm waiting. And if I never get married, then that's that. Sex is not all-important. It isn't special enough to risk your physical health or relationships over. Within the confines of marriage, it's a beautiful thing. Outside, it's dangerous.

There's your typical Christian answer.

[Hellfighter 17]

Originally posted by Krillin

Originally posted by Android-18
Now no one shoot me but...

I believe that it is not really killing something...I mean yeah, it's sperm and egg, begining to grow, but they usually abort it at 3 months. Do you remember anything when you were 3 months from conception? I don't even think it has fingers and toes. I think that unless it LOOKs and can THINK, it isn't horrible.

So, if it doesn't look like a person, it's sub-human? What's the basis for that? At what point would a baby look enough like a person for it to matter?

Regarding the thought idea, it's baloney. At conception, the cells are reproducing themselves so as to create a brain for this child. If left unchecked, it would create this brain. If it would reach this conclusion, and you destroy it before it can reach that conclusion, it's just as bad as destroying the brain itself.

By that basis we might as well allow tapeworms and other parasites to feed off of us and hinder are lives since they are alive in accordance with the cell theory and so forth. Also, it is normally accepted that within the first trimester it is not considered 'alive,' but I believe it is still a crime for somebody else to intentionally cause the death of the fetus.

My mom believes in fate, and if that baby is meant to be yours, the soul will go back and return when you are ready. (don't laugh or flame this)

How can we know? What's the basis for that line of thought? Where's the evidence supporting that? What facts have you seen to support that? I assume there are none, unless you're gifted by some sort of scientific overflow of knowledge. For that reason, that line of ideas is simply speculation. We can't apply it at all to reality without anything to support it.

I find this highly ironic with you appearing to be a devout (sp?) Christian, which is based on faith rather than science. In any case, I can appreciate arguing something, but it has appeared pointless to me to disputee blief with 'facts' (quotation marks seeing how we don't really 'know' anything, we just have approximation, with some accordance for minor things such as velocity and other such small things).

I think you are both strong in doing what you think is right.

I agree. Murdering defenseless babies who literally have nowhere to run is heroic and laudable.

Nice job on switching from the facts and so force. I know that it is a 'baby,' though fetus should be used, but that appears to be twisting morals instead, and your morals may not be the same as somebody else's. I know this is a debate, but in that case you should really point out why your morals supersede those of others.

I know that if I got preganant I'd likely do the same. I couldn't as easily give it up for adoption, anyone who is a mother here will know the bond you'll have with your baby.

Then don't have sex. If you aren't willing to deal with the consequences, don't do the deed. It isn't the baby's fault you were irreponsible. Don't blame it by killing it.

I have always been an advocate of taking responsible for one's actions, but there is more to abortion than simply that.

I know I'd go looking for him/her and it would be painful. I'd rather let it go before it can think and grow and end up being something I will love more than anything, and before he/she can hate me if they found out what I did, by giving them away.

I'd rather have been allowed to live in someone else's care than killed by my own mother.

'Kay. For all you know that child could have had a very terrible life, such as going from foster home to foster home all the time, living on the streats after some time in the system, being abused, et cetera.

I'm for anything, really, and I just don't think what you're doing is wrong. Don't let anyone call you a murderer. Be there for your girl, let her know you understand how she feels, and comfort her. She WILL have children, and perhaps my mom is right, maybe the soul of this unborn child will return. Who knows?

How isn't it murder?

mur?der Pronunciation (m?rdr)
n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

fe?tus Pronunciation (fts)
n. pl. fe?tus?es
1. The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
2. In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/

I will say, though, definitions can get quite tricky.

Man this really should be on the Kame House.

I pray it won't be. I'm too passionate on this subject to wait a year for discussion.

I concur.Although it would be two and one half for me. =(

Originally posted by Jeice

Also, the law does not consider it actual murder unless the child is out of the womb and cries/takes it's first independent breath.

The law is not an infallible source of truth and knowledge. Incestuous marriages are legal in the state of Alabama. In North Carolina, it is illegal to sing off-key. In Tennessee, you are not legally entitled to use a lasso to catch a fish. You may not grow thistles in a Maryland garden. Getting the idea?

I pointed out a law earlier, and I agree the law cannot always be used.

On a final note, I must say that I'm entirely pissed off at Tap right now. This is obviously a sensitive issue, yet you're making crass, ignorant statements. It isn't funny. It isn't proper. Grow up.

I completely agree.

[Raditzu]

Pro-choice, all the way. Forcing your beliefs onto people is never the way to go.

That said, this thread has gotten really off track.

[Bra]

Wow. Talk about 'fucking retard syndrome'. Kirano comes forward with a problem, and you idiots get all high-and-mighty and start taking stabs at one another.

Fuck. Off.

Kirano, I honestly don't know what to tell you. I don't know if abortion is the 'right' or 'wrong' thing to do, and I doubt I'll find out until after I'm dead. Point is, I realize that this shit has got to suck for you right now, and I'm sorry you've got a problem like this to deal with now.

Basically, you've got to come to grips with what you, your girlfriend, and anybody else involved decides is right for you. If that means abortion, or if that means taking responsibility for the kid, or if that means adoption, you're going to have to act on it.

You know, as a Christian, you'd think I would know the church's stance on this issue, eh? But I don't. I'm not even sure there is an official church. Anyway, as lame as it sounds, if you're seeking guidance, you can hit up a pastor (or reverend, priest, or whatever) and talk it out with him/her. They can be an incredible resource for guidance, yannow?

To be honest, I'm in a moral dilemma just writing this. I don't know if what I'm telling you is going to lead to a poor decision. I don't know if what anyone's told you is going to lead to a poor decision. So really, then, the only completely right advice I can give you is that - while you still have the time - you seek out all the moral and practical guidance you can, until you come up with a decision you can live with.

[Orion]

Unfortunately, I've been in a position where for a week my girlfriend and I thought that she could've been pregnant. That was one of the worst weeks of my life. That's a terrible thing to say, seeing as I'm Christian. I really wish I did wait until I got married. At least I know I'm with the girl I will, but that still doesn't make it right, in my eyes.

Anyway, I personally disagree with abortion. I think it's a better idea to at least give the child up for adoption. I know that at least in Australia, there is a larger amount of childless couples wanting a baby than there are babies to be adopted. Plus, destroying something that is actually changinginto a human doesn't sit right with me.

That being said, as much as I'm Christian and everything, I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on other people. It's your life, and it's your choice what you do. No one should order you to do anything, just provide advice. But if you do go through this (or even if you don't, actually) you should really consider abstaining from sex until you're ready to handle the responsibility of a child.

[Hellfighter 17]

Bra, I can understand why you react to a group of the posts (which does include mine, but I am not intending this post to 'defend' myself), but the subject of abortion was brought up and people offered their opinions on abortion and some debated such a thing. You gave, kinda =/, your own insights into the subject, so I don't see how you can slander them for doing so in such a manner. I admit, more focus should have been directed specifically towards Kirano, but this was a controversial subject.

BTW, your post is being deleted, Waffuru.

[Hellfighter 17]

This thread is reserved for talking specifically about Kirano's situation. Carry ant arguments to here: edit by rad: Thread deleted.