I Wanna' Write =(

[Aero]

Originally posted by Krillin
Ha, I knew you'd find some example to prove me wrong. You can't resist. I love it.

Books do require planning. It's a simple fact. Even if Philip Pullman drew up drafts of His Dark Materials without figuring an end, he was still experienced enough to recognize the vague "dark area" that would indicate possible ends, and engineered his writing in a way so as to create as few as possible inconsistencies. Then, once the draft was completed, his revision process was necessarily more stringent so as to smooth out the plot.

This is writing. There are exceptions. You know this, I know this. But there are fundamentals. You don't break from this fundamentals unless you have a very good reason. Gokua has no good reason.

Whoever said that writing is a free art deserves to be made a claustrophobic, and locked up in an elevator for a year.

Sure, once I am done the first draft I will obviously tone it well. But to start, I will let my feelings speak for themselves. When you begin to structure a story around something you find yourself trying to follow your plans. That can cripple your writing.

I see what you're saying though. But people have different styles. I have a basic idea, and I'll unearth the rest of the idea in the process of writing it.

[Super Buu]

Originally posted by Krillin
Ha, I knew you'd find some example to prove me wrong. You can't resist. I love it.

Books do require planning. It's a simple fact. Even if Philip Pullman drew up drafts of His Dark Materials without figuring an end, he was still experienced enough to recognize the vague "dark area" that would indicate possible ends, and engineered his writing in a way so as to create as few as possible inconsistencies. Then, once the draft was completed, his revision process was necessarily more stringent so as to smooth out the plot.

Citation plx.

Also for the record you're sounding really obnoxious. I don't know you deliberately intended to paint this thread with sarcasm, but there is a Spam OFF tag.

[Krillin]

Example: Great cooks have a general idea of what a cup of sugar looks like, or what three teaspoons of olive oil is, without having to measure it out. Indeed, they don't really need to use recipes to make great meals. While a beginner cook might just get lucky by going off on his own, he's much better suited to dealing with the fact that he's inexperienced, and measuring out the ingredients/following the recipe.

Citation plx.

There isn't one. There is a very small chance I'm wrong. I doubt it, however. If you've got a different theory as to how his writing process went that fits better than my own, I'd love to hear it.

Also for the record you're sounding really obnoxious. I don't know you deliberately intended to paint this thread with sarcasm, but there is a Spam OFF tag.

I'm quite aware of the tag. I'm not aware of the time when sarcasm equated to spam, however.

[Aero]

Originally posted by Krillin
Example: Great cooks have a general idea of what a cup of sugar looks like, or what three teaspoons of olive oil is, without having to measure it out. Indeed, they don't really need to use recipes to make great meals. While a beginner cook might just get lucky by going off on his own, he's much better suited to dealing with the fact that he's inexperienced, and measuring out the ingredients/following the recipe.

I like that comparison. Very strong.


But I personally think I'd fair better going without a plot. I trust my instincts, and believe that they will put together something at least worthy of reading. Then, when I want to focus more I'll revise it in the second draft.


In cooking you can't expect to make a cake, and if it comes out crappy, try to make it look nice and taste great. You have to start over. With writing you don't necessarily need to restart from scratch.

[Super Buu]

@Krill: If everyone just said "I've got no evidence, but there's a very small chance I'm wrong," we'd be pretty fucked. All it takes is for one other person to say exactly the same, and your whole 'argument' has crumbled.

Given that it's based on talking to Philip Pullman in person as well as lengthy research into his methods for one of my Creative Writing assignments, I'm going to stick with the theory he's outright said that he uses - writing from an idea, and letting the rest come together.

And if you can be sarcastic and constructive at the same time, then that's great, but you're not. Your only contribution to this thread was in your first post, and that was a false assumption. Telling someone to conform to a certain style of writing when their own preference produces equal results doesn't help.

[Aero]

It's all good. I welcome all criticism Krillin can offer.

[Yajirobe]

Originally posted by Kollifum

Originally posted by Yajirobe

Originally posted by Kollifum

Originally posted by Nappa
If you have a dream buried deep inside your heart, you must follow it. Just as animals follow the love of the wind and sweet honey suckle, you also must be who you were born to be. Do not let anyone put you down. The only reason people will put you down is because they are to afraid to follow. To help you make your choice, I suggest getting a cozy sleeping bag, a cup of hot coco, and your favorite book. Go out to your back yard and watch the stars as they move. Follow your heart, do what must be done!

....


So far all we have is a vague description of stressed school kids who smoke pot.

Thats like 3/4 of the school kids out there.

Theres plenty of rich kids in my town whos mom smoke pot. How do i know this? Well I can smell it very strongly when i walk into their house.

....not the group I know. The group that smokes pot is, the majority of the time, pot heads. And pot heads aren't much for having money, or reading books. I mean, if Clerks had been a book, I don't think they would have even turned a profit.

[Aero]

Originally posted by Kollifum
....not the group I know. The group that smokes pot is, the majority of the time, pot heads. And pot heads aren't much for having money, or reading books. I mean, if Clerks had been a book, I don't think they would have even turned a profit.

I guess I'm the only person that interacts with smart individuals that smoke Mary Jane then.

[Deo]

You broke the quote Yaj.

And my mom smokes pot, doesn't mean she'd read a book about high school kids who do. Not to mention the fact she'd break my thumbs if she caught me doing drugs.

And Gokua, you seem to interact with a minority. Not enough to sustain successful sales of a book by any stretch of the imagination.

[Downy Peach]

Once you have a better principle to work with then just the smoking of pot, it'll guide you to a lot of places. It's always best to exhaust all possible options, and organize them into a well-structured basis as to build upon, once you have the groundwork it's all about laying the bricks, which I consider to be the easiest part in a way.

Some writers, I'm unsure of the exact statistic, but a good plurality of the well-known get inspiration from dreams and things that have happened to people around them, it's easier to make people understand that way, I think.

I apologise if it looks as though I'm stating the obvious, but I felt I had to make an addition; being as though I attempted to write something half decent the other week before my computer got flooded with trojans.

[Krillin]

Originally posted by Super Buu
@Krill: If everyone just said "I've got no evidence, but there's a very small chance I'm wrong," we'd be pretty fucked. All it takes is for one other person to say exactly the same, and your whole 'argument' has crumbled.

Not exactly. The statement itself has no bearing on it, except what weight others put on it. You have to figure, "Does the person saying this actually know what he's talking about?"

It's people like you who give doctors headaches.

Given that it's based on talking to Philip Pullman in person as well as lengthy research into his methods for one of my Creative Writing assignments, I'm going to stick with the theory he's outright said that he uses - writing from an idea, and letting the rest come together.

And I believe I've made a damn good description of a situation in which writing from an idea and bringing the rest together operates. Point is, there was an original idea, and from that, a plan sprung. Whether it was formed five seconds before his pen hit the paper, or five years, there was still a plan. Gokua apparently has none, yet he's asking us if his work would come together. See the conflict?

Some writers lay in bed, think together a plot, search every little niche, then write. Some writers are intrigued by a single idea and immediately throw it onto a page, watching what it will do. The point is, however, that an amount of foresight is necessary, even at the most basic level. Philip Pullman is an extreme case, but even there, I can guarantee you he searched ahead the smallest amount to see how things would work out.

Regardless, even if we don't come to terms on this point, it should be noted that a lack of planning is certainly not the suggested course for new writers. Unless you care to contradict me here as well?

And if you can be sarcastic and constructive at the same time, then that's great, but you're not. Your only contribution to this thread was in your first post, and that was a false assumption. Telling someone to conform to a certain style of writing when their own preference produces equal results doesn't help.

But who's to say their own preference produces equal results? We haven't seen results from either end of the spectrum. What we HAVE seen is how previous authors have worked their problems out. From every writing article I've read and author I've talked to of actual repute, the conclusion is almost unanimous. What I have described is a fundamental, and fundamentals are not broken without good reason.

I have a pretty good idea what your reply will be, but I don't want to try to preempt it and be wrong. We'll see.

[Super Buu]

Originally posted by Krillin

Originally posted by Super Buu
@Krill: If everyone just said "I've got no evidence, but there's a very small chance I'm wrong," we'd be pretty fucked. All it takes is for one other person to say exactly the same, and your whole 'argument' has crumbled.

Not exactly. The statement itself has no bearing on it, except what weight others put on it. You have to figure, "Does the person saying this actually know what he's talking about?"

It's people like you who give doctors headaches.

So your argument is based on 'everyone will listen to me because of my credentials'? And of course, I'm the crazy guy talking bullshit who's never written a thing in my life.

I'mana stop derailing the thread and leave you to it. Everything you've said is a matter of opinion, or plain misinformation where you claim your opinion to be 'almost unanimous'. I would disagree with some of the things you've said, but honestly, that's just my opinion too.

So I'll just go ahead and back up your first statement. Gokua can decide which of us knows what he's talking about.

VV
I NU U'D SAY THAT

[Deo]

I have to be honest, the majority of the time, Krill's comments come off as 'I have a stick up my ass, everyone else needs to be as pissy as I am' as oppose to actual useful commentary.

Not to say he's always like that...just...a lot of the time.

[Krillin]

Originally posted by Super Buu

So your argument is based on 'everyone will listen to me because of my credentials'? And of course, I'm the crazy guy talking bullshit who's never written a thing in my life.

I'm not saying you're crazy, or that you're talking bullshit. In fact, from our previous discussions, I know you've got a pretty healthy/high view of your own credentials. In the same manner, I'm not saying I have some inside information about how book-publishing works. I'm simply reiterating what I've heard from all the articles I've read, and people I've talked to. If what I'm saying is wrong, prove that I'm wrong. What I'm saying seems to fit best. If someone else finds that it doesn't fit as well as something else, then they'll go follow something else (and hopefully, point out this something else to me, so that I can follow it too).

I'mana stop derailing the thread and leave you to it.

Good, good, I'm glad at least one of us can be mature enough to drop the obligatory "I'll be the man and leave you to your 'spam', even though I've been dancing this tango with you for the last few posts now". Thanks Greg.

Everything you've said is a matter of opinion, or plain misinformation where you claim your opinion to be 'almost unanimous'. I would disagree with some of the things you've said, but honestly, that's just my opinion too.

Again, please prove to me where I'm wrong. Use logic. Use quotes. Use examples. But don't call my statement misinformation if you can't provide an alternative that both fits better and is well-supported. Thanks.

So I'll just go ahead and back up your first statement. Gokua can decide which of us knows what he's talking about.

Or, perhaps, both of us know what we're talking about, and there's simply a communication barrier between us.

VV
I NU U'D SAY THAT

I predicted both this reply (not letter for letter obviously, but certainly a mocking reply), and the "I'll take the high road and leave you to spam" reply. The rest I kinda figured would come up, but I wasn't so sure about. Clearly, I'm no psychic.

[Deo]

OMNISLASHING FTL

If anything, I think your border offensive criticism would only spurn him to pursue his original path.

[Krillin]

Wow. Seems like I have a stalker. Can't seem to go one post in any Asylum topic without you on my heels.

Where's the offensive criticism? I think Gokua's a fine writer, and Super Buu is certainly a better writer than I am. If anything I've said seems to be contrary to that, make no mistake, I'm very aware of their abilities, and my relative inability.

[Super Buu]

I wasn't "taking the high road and leaving you to your spam", as you put it. I was shutting up and inviting you to do the same instead of partaking in a petty battle of getting the last word in.

[Krillin]

Potayto, potahto

[Deo]

Two topics. Count 'em.

But I'll veer away from off topic comments, as we already had Rei come down on it once already.

I think the best way for this story to pass onto a more general population is for Gokua to not so much emphasize the usage of pot as a medium, but to have a variety of different problems be seen affecting each student. So much so they wouldn't be under the same classification of 'bullying' or what have you, and they use the pot later to relate. Not glorifying or endorsing something that some people may find offensive, and as pot isn't so taboo people would buy your book for the shock value, it's best to work a fair middle point.

[Tobias]

Just a note that my good friend Mary, whose moniker comes form his smoking habits, is an avid reader.

As long as you have a core of good, believable, well fleshed out characters it would make a good book.