Dana thread #9375

[Burter]

So, I was talking to Dana today while at work. For those who don't know, Dana was a member of Chubbs DBZ for about three years, give or take. He was Piccolo, Android 13 and Pan. To put it bluntly, he didn't get along with staff very well.

Dana was the emo kid of Chubbs. He's the guy who sits in the corner and takes all the shit he can handle until the point where he can't take it anymore. He smiles to you and he laughs at your jokes because he knows you can kick his ass. But then, when he just can't take that shit anymore, he pulls out a gun and he fucking kills everybody.

(Hope you liked that comparison)

Anyway, he eventually got so fed up with our authority and felt he was being so wronged that he got a hold of some staff passwords by unknown means, and deleted two VERY important boards. A LOT of development work was lost. Years of staff discussion was lost.

After that, he went onto to almost copy Chubbs all together with his own RPG (a feat a certain other banned person keeps trying to do). He was talked out of it and since then has been very reasonable.

He's on Another Destiny and has shown no signs of his former self. I spoke to him on the phone today and he seemed very ready to start over.

Now, here's the thing. Every time I talk to Dana, our conversation drifts from him kissing my ass, to him teasing me, to Another Destiny, to his own issues and finally to whether or not he can return here to Chubbs. The answer the last dozen times are a solid absolutely not.

This time, I'm going to open it for discussion. Using Another Destiny as an example, I feel he's ready to start over. However, we have to look at what happened when Max came back from a supposedly infinite ban.

At the end of the day, it's going to be up to me and Raditzu. But I told Dana I would let you guys have the floor again and see if any of you feel differently then the last time we did this (which was about a 15 to 1 vote against).

So, the floor is your's. Keep things mature, please.

[Mowgli]

Although I probably don't know him as well as you or the others do, I agree with what you said. From what I've seen and our (Dana and me) conversations, I think he is definitely ready to start over. I beleive he should be given the chance to come back on Chubbs. The only thing I think that should be done is keep an eye on him. Not to the point where his every move and action must be dictated by staff, unless you guys want that of course, but to the point where we are aware of what he's doing and can be prepared for anything, you know?

[Tobias]

He IMed me the other day asking if I thought he should be let back in, as he apparently did a lot of other people. Now usually I'm all for second chances.

Sitting here as I am now I would say, sure why the fuck not. Give him another chance. He was always a decent guy when I knew him before, and after he seemed alright. It was probably just a bad time in life for him.

But like I told him, while I harbor no ill feelings to him from before, if I were in an Administrative position I would not let him back. There is the simple fact he attacked the site, backstabbed his friends, and then on top of it tried getting back in again covertly (iirc). As an admin I would not trust a person who had shown such past deviancies because its my sites balls on the line on the slight chance he's just been sucking up to get back in and then blows up once more. Especially considering how poorly revoking permabans have gone in the past, only serving to remind us why that person was banned in the first place.

But with out projecting myself into a role, I have nothing to lose by gambling on it so sure.

[Spencinator]

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on him.

^ That's how I feel about this subject. And guess what? He's fooled me way more then twice. I just can't, in good conscience, agree with his reinstatement. Also, I'd like to point out that their wouldn't even NEED to be an Alternate Destiny if it wasn't for his immaturity and lack of responsibility. Grant it, things worked out in the end (sort of), but he still put us through a lot of his bullshit to get from point A to point B. *sigh* Look, I'm probably not the most active member of either community anymore, but I still care what happens to the both of them. So yeah, firm no on him returning on my end. And I'd like it if the administration of AD at least consider removing his access from there as well. It's up to you, but I felt the need to mention it.


Anyway, this is merely my opinion on the topic at hand. Feel free to ignore it if you wish, I just wanted my say on the matter. I'd discuss this further, but I'm tired and this is a bit of a touchy subject with me. =/

[Waffuru]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[Toshiro]

Bluntly, I don't trust him.

[Amadeus]

To be honest, I don`t know what to think of Dana anymore. Prior to his actions I thought of him as a nice guy who just had a lot of bad luck in his life. So you can imagine my suprise when I found out he had directed his hatred towards staff and harmed the RPG. I just didn`t think he was the type to illegally gain and abuse staff powers. Plus, as far as I know, he is also responsible for the deletion of the FoF boards which caused the RPG to restart as AD.

Given all these factors, I`m suprised Burter is even willing to talk to him, much less give him another chance.

Should we take him back? I don`t know... I`m usually a preety forgiving person, but an act of this magnitude is unaccaptable even for a type of person Burter describes him to be. Even a mass killer usually suffers a lifetime of abuse and misunderstanding before he "cracks". Dana, on the other hand, was going through a rough period and aimed his bad will against staff and the fuctioning of the RPG. I`m not going to claim to know Dana, but that is the impression I got from his actions. Even if he had trouble in his life, I doubt they were of such magnitude that he couldn`t prevent himself from harming others. So I think you can understand my doubt.

...I say yes, let`s take him back in. However, he should be under close observation for quite a long time to make sure he remains calm and sticks to the rules. He should also get a few warning points so you restrict him a bit. Those points can be removed for good behaviour over time, but he should remain under observation until staff is of opinion that he won`t cause harm. Optionally, the staff should switch staff board passwords. Just in case he attempts the same stunt again.

[Bujin]

Like I told him, no. It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of principle.

[Minoshia]

give him another chance. and keep him on a short leash.

[Nori]

I think Dana has changed somewhat. He always used to have these emotional outbreaks from time to time (Dante Conquest, the major incident he was banned, FoF, and so on), but he seems to not do that anymore. Indeed he seems totally different then he was awhile back.

I say give him a chance, really. Just watch him.

[Raz]

I say give him a chance, really. Just watch him.

I agree. Though he might show the signs of change there should at least be some sort of watch over him for "just in case" circumstances.

[Kirano]

It's not impossible to change. I say give him at least 5 months trial on AD before making a decision on whether to bring him back here. I'm just skeptical.

[Aero]

He seems to be chill on AD, so that demeanor would probably carry over - at least in the short-run. I say . . . sure. Let him back, short leash as someone above me said. I have no ill feelings towards him; never did.

[Super Buu]

It's difficult. On one hand, I think some of the shit that was said about him in the staff forum was very wrong. I'm not going to give any names, but I know if one or two people hadn't tried to bully Dana because they could, the wipe probably would never have happened.

That said, Dana should have risen above it anyway. I'd be pissed in his scenario, but what he did hurt EVERYONE, not just the people he was pissed off with. And it's not the first time - remember when he left CU, and then continued to read our forums by using Violet's account?

I'm going to have to agree with Spencer on this one. If this was his first or second chance, yeah. But Dana just does these things. I think he's had some bad luck in life, but I think he's also been the cause of a lot of his own suffering.

If it were my decision to make, I wouldn't let Dana roleplay at AD. He's given us no problems since being there (edit: actually that's wrong. He did throw up a bit of drama in the Aether saga, and in a personal RP reused a few paragraphs from Chubbs. Not ban-worthy, but not golden behaviour either), but like Spence also pointed out, we wouldn't even have needed to make the site if not for him. He's very nice to me now, but I haven't forgotten the things he said about the FoF leavers once he'd deleted our accounts.

There's a fine line between being a forgiving person and being a sucker. No.

[Dehan]

Nope. This is like saying you guys are going to let Max back in then we'll probably end up walking on eggshells for a few weeks thinking he'll find a way to wipe chubbs out of existence or something. Or god forbid having to deal with someone baiting him or him baiting someone into a discussion that brings up old wrong doings and gets the whole board involved into a war or some shiznit.

I believe in second chances but hasn't he already done some foul shit two or more times? But like you said man it's going to be up to you and Raditzu in the end so our say is basically worth nothing. If you do let him in though just keep him on a short lease or something.

Just my two cents.


"There's a fine line between being a forgiving person and being a sucker. No." <--- well put lol.

[Aqua]

Oh my, Chubbs politics...

I don't think it matters much either way. If you let him back in, it shouldn't make much of a difference so long as he isn't made staff because you can just ban him when/if he gets out of line. If you keep him out, there's no risk of anything going wrong. Of the two options, the second one seems smartest to me. I have nothing against the guy personally, I'm just pointing out the logistics.

[Violet]

Its been almost a year since the incidient, and people make mistakes. I think he's really learned something, and from what we've discussed, he's seriously lamenting his mistake. He loves this place just like the rest of us vet's do. I am not really so much taking his defence because he is/was my friend, but because I imagined myself in his shoes. If I somehow (Although dishonestly) accessed something that was hurtful to me, but was supposed to be kept away from my eyes, yeah, I'd be pretty pissed too. Its pretty much the equivilant of someone talking shit behind your back at work. Now, I am not trying to justify his actions, but just think about it.

He's shown no malevolence on AD, which I think shows he's realized what he did was bad, and wants to make right even though it may or may not come out as fruitfully as he wishes it would be, and everyone deserves another chance.

There's a big difference between him and the other certain perpetually banned person, though. I won't really get into it here, but let's put it this way: when Dana tried to make a return (Under the cloak, metaphorically speaking), he didn't really cause any problems. Whilst on the other hand...the other person comes back, and creates havok each time he returns.

I think we should give him another chance to roleplay here. We're not so big of assholes as to keep someone from writing. Its not really a "There's other places to go!" sort of deal, its that he knows us, and he's comfortable here. He put in quite a bit of roleplaying work when he was here before, despite his persistant comments to staff to become staff himself, or his only mistake against the board as a whole. People make mistakes.

I am gonna say yea, let him back, simply because I know he'll be an active part of Chubbs once more, and put faith into him not trying anything like he did before again.

[Kirano]

But if either of the two do decide to let him back, I think he should start on a clean slate. I mean no powerups and no abilities. No old stats. Start as someone who's just joined (990,000)

[Nori]

when Dana tried to make a return (Under the cloak, metaphorically speaking),he didn't really cause any problems.

Didn't he pose as a woman, say he was drunk and horny all the time, and post nude pictures in the Kame house? Which turned out to be his wife, or something?

That being said, I still think he deserves another chance.

[Spencinator]

Look guys, I don't care if he's mellowed out some. What he's done was wrong, and still is wrong. Changed or not, the guy needs to own up to what he did. It's like excusing a theif for shoplifting just because he was sorry. It doesn't make it right. He's attacked two communities maliciously, posed as a staff member, posed as a female member, stolen content from a community he attacked, completely undermined authority, and abused his friends trust. I can't believe some of you want let him back after that.