Models for Strategic Planning in Dominion

[Jonathan Meer]

Let's lay some groundwork here by talking about models. Models are used as a framework for understanding objectives in a match, and planning strategy. Models are not mutually exclusive, but merely provide a different perspective for strategic planning. One Model for Summoner's Rift, for example, is the 'role-based model', where a team is composed with various roles, and these roles inform both each individual's decision-making and objectives, and also the larger objectives of the team. Roles are fluid and are not clearly defined, and can be fleshed out via adjectives. For example, a primary role in Summoner's Rift is the Jungler. There are, however, different kinds of Jungler. There is the Ganking Jungler, whose primary focus is controlling the game early by focusing upon ganking wherever and whenever possible. There is the Counter Jungler, whose primary focus is shutting down the enemy jungler as much as possible. Of course, counter jungling and ganking jungling are by no means mutually exclusive, and many junglers incorporate both aspects. Some champions are, however, more inclined toward one aspect or the other, and this role informs they way that champion should (typically, all else being equal) be played. There are a ton of factors to take into account here.

The role-based model is probably a good way of getting a grasp of Dominion strategy as well. So, let's brainstorm. I can think of a few roles:

Scout - Captures points as much as possible. Does not engage particularly often, though can defend himself when possible. Movement speed and capture speed are a must.

Defender - Makes sure turrets already held are kept. Short-term sustain (think Mundo's ult) is the key here. Movement speed is not as much a priority. Defenders do not fit well into Sigfried's approach to Dominion.

Disruptor - Creates as much chaos as possible, shutting down enemy captures by persistent damage. AoE champs are solid for this. Karthus is a shining example of this. Close kin of the Defender.

Jungling Assassin - Controls the jungle by patrolling it and killing enemies wherever and whenever possible. Should be a high-burst, mobile champion. Think Akali. Suppresses enemy movement if successful, and forces them to be defensive in their travels through the jungle.

Thoughts?

[Sigfried Hunin]

Yes, I think a lot of those titles are good, however I really want to stress to everyone that EVERYONE takes ALL of these roles at one point or another during a game. Each person can have a "mindset" of what they are good at and are built for, but you should not, SCRATCH THAT, CAN not ignore those other responsibilities if they are of higher priority.

I'm going to put some thought into what my personal list of "priorities" are in a game, cause I think it'll fit pretty well into this thread. It's all very emergent.

[Kaden]

I think "always on the offensive" is the proper mindset for this game mode. Either you're running to kill someone and take their point or you're running to kill someone and stop them from taking your point. Under that paradigm, I would look at the roles like this:

Striker - takes points.
Bulldozer - more methodical pushes where constant poking and decent sustain force people out of their points.
Trapper - provides map coverage/vision/control and can pick off stragglers.
Assassin - wanders around and kills people.

As Meer pointed out, roles are not mutually exclusive. Really what I posted isn't that different from what Meer did, but the shift from thinking about it as role-based to thinking about it as "how should I be attacking" is an important one.

Slowing pushing (Bulldozer role) will be a big thing on this map for champions who just out-sustain whoever's against them (Irelia, Udyr, Mundo, etc.). It will force the enemy team to respond in numbers and that gives your team a chance to push onto other cap points.

Something Josh keeps pointing out in Mumble is that, once you get a point advantage, play more defensively with the ultimate goal of keeping the points where they are (3-2, most commonly) and not with the ultimate goal of getting more points in your favor.

[Sigfried Hunin]

My VERY PERSONAL, NOT PERFECT list of priorities:

My general idea is to always take the path of least resistance and to create paths for your team to take.

0: Don't stop moving. There should never be a time when you're just sittin on a turret unless somebody is coming for it, like, RIGHT THEN. When you're stagnant, you might as well be dead. LITERALLY.

1: Attack an undefended point. A point should be considered "defended" if an enemy player is seen or has recently been seen in the jungle near it or in one of the lanes adjacent and is NOT currently capping a point. If they are in process of attacking a point, they will not come after you (if they do, they're silly.)

2: A 1 person defend. In my opinion, this is the ONLY kind of defense there should really be unless you're doing some kind of strat that involves multiperson defense. If there is only one person coming at you and it looks like they're going to kill you, just bail. Let them take the point. It does the team no good if you die and you only occupy one person to do it. If it's a 2v1, you might consider running if there is a point you can go cap. If there aren't any available, undefended points to cap, stay and die to occupy the two attackers. If it's a 3v1 occupy them for as long as you possibly can. If they are throwing this many people at one point, they're leaving a lot undefended so you need to KEEP it undefended for as long as you can. 4&5v1s should just be run from. Go cap their shit. It's all undefended and they're going to kill you almost instantly anyways and cap the point, which leaves your team one man down.

3: Assist a teammate in taking a point. If you are close, go help somebody take a point. The difference between one person and two people taking a point is DRASTIC, and you get more gold and points for your team. not only that but usually the other team is going to send people to try and disrupt people from taking points. The first person in that scenario should CONTINUE TAKING THAT POINT until they are hit. The SECOND person's new objective is to prevent that disrupting member from getting to the point. Stop capping and go intercept them.

4: Drop a passive minion push. Use Promote or a Malz/Morgana pool on a wave, but then keep on moving. You don't stand in lane and push, but rather drop it and move on. If there are any of the tasks above to do, don't waste you mana or CD on this and rather just get straight to the fight.

5: Attack an enemy opponent. You should only ever attack an opponent you feel like you can kill in about ten seconds or less, you're intercepting, or if you think you can attract their teammates to come and help in their defense. If the enemy is breaking off and getting away DO NOT CHASE. Just leave them. You're using the only vital resource (your beautiful, capping hands) we have in this game on KDR, which doesn't really matter all that much. A tactic that tanky DPS can use is to attack a person when they have friends nearby but not so close that they'll kill you instantly. That many times pulls the others in and occupies them so your team can cap. Obviously don't do that if you're just gonna get merc'd.

6: Attack a defended point. This means you're going in to their base and killing their mans. It's usually pretty hard for one person to take another person off of a turret unless they're at low health or you're Akali/Twitch/OP fucker. If you have two people to spare and you can peel somebody off of a turret and take it, go for it. See if you can attract additional defenders. This is most likely used when they have more points than you do, so they should be more spread out. Remember to always take the path of least resistance.

7: Get Storm Buff. This buff is MADE for takin defended points. Ideally I think this buff should go to high attack power champs who are going to skill everything or tanky champs who are just gonna charge in and disrupt under the turret and eat all the turret hits like candy. This should only really be grabbed if there's not anything that's currently IMPORTANT to do. It's like the straw on the camel's back, IMO.

8: Push minion waves. I see people doing this shit all the time, and I'm like WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT. You can do this if you have map superiority and the other team is elsewhere on the map. This really factors into a more defensive strategy because if you push your minion wave up, your minions WILL take points, so keep it in mind if you're expecting people to be coming your way soon and you want to give them something else to think about. Promote is BAMF in this situation, and you can usually leave a few waves with a promoted fella to push for you so you can better defend.


That's all I can think of off the top of my head. What do you guys think should be changed?

[Mal Nova]

Pffft. Your Logic is flawed. Jax doesn't run away from anything. He just hops and rapes. Hops and rapes.

Hops....

And...

~Rapes~

[Belle Hibiki]

In terms of defense on 3 points, I like to have two tanky-dps sustains (a la Mordekaiser) on the top and bottom and someone on the midpoint that has either high maneuverability or a global ult (Rammus powerball or Pantheon jump, for instance).

The remaining two people I like to see as roamers, killing enemy champions in the jungle and suppressing their ability to launch swarm attacks on one point. They also act as the swinging defense team, quickly getting to points that need D and breaking up the enemy team. If the enemy commits 4 or more to a point, the tanky sustain just delays it as much as he can while the swing team goes to grab one of the enemy points, because if the enemy has 4 or 5 there, they can't stop the counter-cap.

[Super Buu]

In terms of pushing minion waves, I like to think of it as something you should keep in mind, and not just put to the bottom of the list of priorities, depending on your champ. If you walk past some minions, promote, and if you have an AOE or some ability good for laning, use it (assuming mana and imminent ganks are not problems). Malzahar is excellent for this because he can drop his DOT and pool, then wander off wherever. If you can take out a wave with a few seconds and a bit of mana, do it.

[Belle Hibiki]

Was gonna say Nasus pool, then I thought about Nasus and how long it takes for Siphoning strike to level up.

How the Hell does he do in Dominion, anyway? Bad?

[Jonathan Meer]

Haven't tried him, but my guess on Nasus is that he'd be surprisingly good. That ult is great for disruption (build him tanky tanky tanky), and his AoE would be great for pushing. Perhaps not ideal, since Siphoning Strike definitely takes a backseat, but I'll bet he could pull his own weight.

[Sigfried Hunin]

In terms of defense on 3 points, I like to have two tanky-dps sustains (a la Mordekaiser) on the top and bottom and someone on the midpoint that has either high maneuverability or a global ult (Rammus powerball or Pantheon jump, for instance).

The remaining two people I like to see as roamers, killing enemy champions in the jungle and suppressing their ability to launch swarm attacks on one point. They also act as the swinging defense team, quickly getting to points that need D and breaking up the enemy team. If the enemy commits 4 or more to a point, the tanky sustain just delays it as much as he can while the swing team goes to grab one of the enemy points, because if the enemy has 4 or 5 there, they can't stop the counter-cap.

A one person defense is kinda... useless though. Only one person can be pushed off a point by two people. If there are TWO people on a 3-point-defense strat with one in the middle point alone that can be quickly met by one of the ancillary champs at the other two points is much more stable.

The "extra" person at a point can always counter cap if a band of 3+ comes in to push a point. In my mind, 3 point defense is about keeping 2 people on point until 3+ come in to take it, and then those 2 move out to counter cap.

[Sigfried Hunin]

In terms of pushing minion waves, I like to think of it as something you should keep in mind, and not just put to the bottom of the list of priorities, depending on your champ. If you walk past some minions, promote, and if you have an AOE or some ability good for laning, use it (assuming mana and imminent ganks are not problems). Malzahar is excellent for this because he can drop his DOT and pool, then wander off wherever. If you can take out a wave with a few seconds and a bit of mana, do it.

I agree with this. I'dd Edit my point to include "drop and forget" minion pushing.

[Anzekay]

Pushing creep waves is also something you can do to let your presence near a node be known, which might cause enemies to either come for you (and thus not be elsewhere) or to keep away which could give you some time to move onto the node.

Basically keeping in mind the possible effects anything you do is really, really, vital in Dominion.

[Jarka]

Pffft. Your Logic is flawed. Jax doesn't run away from anything. He just hops and rapes. Hops and rapes.

Hops....

And...

~Rapes~

1. Please do not use the term "rape" lightly.
2. This is a thread about dominion strategy, not praise of a single champ. There are separate threads for that. Please stay on topic.

[Piper Juunanagou]

While I agree with number 1, I believe that Mal Nova was indicate his preference for a highly offense-heavy strategy while playing Dominion. In particular, he believes that Jax is a great champion for such a play-style.

<3

[Mal Nova]

I do apologize for using the word rape. There are four separate definitions for the word rape, two of which describe vegetation, another describing the sexual preference and the fourth that I was implying is destruction.

But again I apologize.

Thing is that I've heard Dominion to be an aggressive game and Jax is supposedly an aggressive champ.

I've also read in the rededit site that Ashe and Josh linked me too that even though Jax can be bad ass in SR, that he should shine even MORE SO in Dominion.

[Ashe]

Mal just made my day referring to rape as a "sexual preference", even though that's totally not the way he intended it when writing it. Oh man, lol.

Jax definitely is good in Dominion because he can skip that awkward gear needing stage. A lot of champs like Tryndamere excel for those reasons as well.

I'm still very much a fan of Shaco on this map because he fulfills quite a few roles and can be a severe pain in the neck to adjust to.

[Sigfried Hunin]

Mal just made my day referring to rape as a "sexual preference", even though that's totally not the way he intended it when writing it. Oh man, lol.

Jax definitely is good in Dominion because he can skip that awkward gear needing stage. A lot of champs like Tryndamere excel for those reasons as well.

I'm still very much a fan of Shaco on this map because he fulfills quite a few roles and can be a severe pain in the neck to adjust to.

Yeah, I fully agree. I'm finding more and more that high damage burst champs are making a great showing more than Tanky DPS in more competitive games (that's not to say Tanky guys don't have a place though)

[Ashe]

Yeah, I fully agree. I'm finding more and more that high damage burst champs are making a great showing more than Tanky DPS in more competitive games (that's not to say Tanky guys don't have a place though)

A lot of the fights come down to small numbers, 1v1s and such. If the champs are going to fight out, the assassin made specifically for ambushes and 1v1s will tend to win out. If not, the assassin can escape fairly easily on average.

[Sigfried Hunin]

A lot of the fights come down to small numbers, 1v1s and such. If the champs are going to fight out, the assassin made specifically for ambushes and 1v1s will tend to win out. If not, the assassin can escape fairly easily on average.

Agree.

[Waffuru]

There is just a higher value placed on mobility and burst damage because of the way the game mode works. Having a great 'poke' or sustain isn't nearly as useful as there is no laning phase. Being able to move about and disrupt the enemy team is incredibly important.

That said, being hard to push off your capture (ie Singed) also definitely has it's place.