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+--- Thread: Humanity's Non-existence? (/showthread.php?tid=28722)
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Humanity's Non-existence? - Burter Jr - 11-28-2005
Quote:Originally posted by Super Buu
Human logic is only comprised of what we know, which is not much in the grand scheme of things.
Super Buu wins.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Hellfighter 17 - 11-28-2005
Quote:Originally posted by Super BuuBut, the mathematical world can be applicable to the real world, it is not just something we made up with our logic, it is how things are, unless this realm is contorted by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Quote:Originally posted by Krillin
Infinity is an impossibility outside of theoretical, intangible employment (such as mathematics). Let's take a look at why this is.
Say, for example, that I had an infinite number of pennies. If I were to give you half of my pennies, we would each have an infinity. Thus, the equation would be this: Infinity - Infinity = Infinity.
However, if I were to give you all my pennies except for 2, you would have an infinity, while I would have 2. The equation would be this: Infinity - Infinity = 2.
Or, if I were to simply give you all my pennies, the equation would instead be this: Infinity - Infinity = Nothing.
It's theoretically impossible, as its very existence would override any shred of human logic.
But that's the thing. Human logic is only comprised of what we know, which is not much in the grand scheme of things. Think of the whole universe as a giant, gaping mass of darkness. That tiny pinprick of light? That's what we know. So we can't claim to know anything for sure. Nothing is ever impossible, because even if we think we know everything, we might be wrong.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Super Buu - 11-28-2005
I'm just arguing that Krillin can't claim to know that the universe is finite. There could be an infinite number of unknown factors in the equation.
Edit: If I wasn't such a dumbass I'd make an awesome lawyer.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Krillin - 11-28-2005
Super Buu, it isn?t a question of our intelligence, but rather, of the properties of deductive reasoning. I ?know? that I?ve got hair on my head. Along with a few other facts, that comprises my entire scope of knowledge. But, that has absolutely nothing to do with logical reasoning. Deductive reasoning would be using already known facts to establish a new, conclusive fact. For example:
All men are mortal.
Chris is a man.
Chris is mortal.
There?s nothing to dispute there. I know for a fact that all men are mortal. I know for a fact that I (Chris) am a man. Therefore, I deductively conclude that I am a mortal. That is deductive reasoning. Along with mathematics, those are the only two absolutes that govern our world (unless you believe in God, as I do).
Utilizing mathematics (an absolute), I have disproven the possibility of Infinity, because of its contradictory nature in absolute circumstances. It can not exist. It does not exist.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Hellfighter 17 - 11-28-2005
In Super Buu's defense, mathematics aren't always applicable to the real world, that's why it is the math world, and sometimes its properties can be used for this, but not all the time. Though in that instance it was used correctly. Just clarification.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Vegeta - 11-29-2005
Infinite cannot be used mathematically, often a very large number will be used instead.
10 to the power of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (a googolplex) for example.
Or even larger numbers depending on how important accuracy is.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Android-18 - 11-29-2005
OMG STOP POSTING IN A LOCKED THREAD!!
Humanity's Non-existence? - Vegeta - 11-29-2005
Is that better?
Humanity's Non-existence? - Tobias - 11-29-2005
All right then peeps, suppose the universe is finite. What lies at the ends to stop us from moving on any farther.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Bra - 11-29-2005
Quote:Originally posted by Garlic Jr
All right then peeps, suppose the universe is finite. What lies at the ends to stop us from moving on any farther.
Car Ramrod.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Android-18 - 11-29-2005
Yes, thank you.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Ruhiel - 11-29-2005
Quote:Originally posted by Garlic Jr
All right then peeps, suppose the universe is finite. What lies at the ends to stop us from moving on any farther.
No one has any clue whatsoever. There's a possibility of other dimensions and whatnot, but I don't believe that right now. They don't even know what that "wall" that could be out there is made of.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Tobias - 11-29-2005
Exactly. I find the concept of everything just stopping as illogical as it not. Mind bending?
Yes.
@Bra: No?
Humanity's Non-existence? - Hellfighter 17 - 11-29-2005
We do not need to know it's there for it to exist. Non-local reality, my friend, it's kind of how our universe works (despite what Neils Bhor would have you think). Technically, it's not stopping, it's constantly moving, it is not an object at rest.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Tobias - 11-29-2005
Scientificaly speaking nothing is there until we know it is. Otherwise we are in the realm of theory and you cannot state things as end-all facts.
I never heard the term non-local reality, and didn't Neils Bhor work with atoms?
Humanity's Non-existence? - Hellfighter 17 - 11-29-2005
Neils Bhor worked on the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics which is where he stated that things are local (I believe it can be said simply to mean that they do not go faster than the speed of light, since in non-local things happen instantaneously, and they do not exist until we look at them, in a sense), but with accordance to this Feynman proved that in a local non-reality world [you can't have local and reality (reality being it is there without you looking) because of the uncertainty principle] there could be a cat who is dead and alive at the same time. Quantum world can = the cosmos world.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Tobias - 11-29-2005
Okay. I don't see how that proves that the universe stops at some point or that it continues on forever.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Hellfighter 17 - 11-29-2005
It proves that it can. >.> You said that since we can't prove it does that it doesn't. Don't twist your word around now! >=\
Humanity's Non-existence? - Tobias - 11-29-2005
I never said anyhting of the sort. Merely asked what would be there preventing our movement forward and said I find it illogical that there could be an end point to everything.
I should state more clearly that I find it incredibaly illogical that something could go on forever. It is more fun, though, to speculate as to what is at the end of everything.
Of course could there be no end and no infinity?
Is the universe sort of spherical in shape? Would I eventualy return to earth if I just kept on going straight out from it? This would have to be in any direction however to avoid an 'end', and wouldn't be a conventional 3 demensional sphere, since there is no surface to the universe like there is to a planet. No surface that we know of at least.
Humanity's Non-existence? - Bra - 11-29-2005
Quote:Originally posted by Garlic Jr
@Bra: No?
What? You think Thorny can't pull you over?
...And ten million dollar cars don't count, so don't even try bringing that up.