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+--- Thread: The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder (/showthread.php?tid=35651)
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Warako - 11-12-2006
I want my Cell to come back.
I have no father.
Even though in Chubbs I know he isn't my father and blah, just saying.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Krillin - 11-12-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Recoome
The focus will change, since you instigated it.
Nice try. If someone skimmed over your post and didn't examine what was going on, you might have actually persuaded someone. But I was simple analyzing what you was saying in relation to the original argument.
Quote:Nowhere did I say they weren't talented. No where did I say that the writings they post aren't some of the best I've seen. But, with them being as good as they are, why limit their exposure of their talent?
I never said you did. My point is, you're arguing that they should not "limit the exposure of their talent", which is quite different than the original argument, though at face value they look much the same (and someone will likely argue that the ARE the same).
Quote:I understand that they have lives, and jobs, and other priorities, and I can on some level, relate. But, if they plan on being a part of a writing community, where you're expected to play a role, they should have the proper time and energy to dedicate to it. They shouldn't join, and then sit around, only posting when their character is on the line.
The proper time and energy according to YOU. The official rules state that the proper time and energy is a 300-word post every three weeks (two to stay out of MIA). They are within that.
Quote:And, if they're as busy as they say, and can hardly afford the time to dedicate to the site and their respective characters, maybe they should give them up. Perhaps, depending on the length of their stay and what they did during it, their stats can be saved for when they have more time. But, to hold an entire character simply to post once every two weeks doesn't seem like a quality use of the character.
Once again, we aren't in a character shortage here. You guys would have absolutely no problem with it if someone did this with Tao Pai Pai, or Pikkon. However, when it's Goku, "zomg you need to post every fucking dayz!"
It doesn't matter what you think is a quality use of the character. It doesn't matter what you think they should or should not do. They are in the rules.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Krillin - 11-12-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Recoome
Did you notice this when I first posted? "(not saying you all do this, or that any of you do in fact, it's just my view)" I guess not.
I saw it. You're either saying that your viewpoint has no relevance to the topic at hand, or that it does. If it doesn't, then why the hell did you post it? If it does, then my reply is perfectly legitimate.
Quote:Tell me this, how long does it take to throw together 300 words. For me, it's not long at all. And, for a lot of the people here, that nothing compared to what they're capable of when interested. Thus, it being half-assed.
Please read the topic before posting. We've already dealt with this issue. The skinny is, a lot of people prefer putting time into their posts rather than just pooping something out.
Quote:Again, look at my first post, "Sure, logiclally they aren't breaking any rules, or doing anything wrong, but rules and systems aren't always perfect."
I saw it buddy. Believe it or not, I'm reading your posts. I'm arguing that BECAUSE they are not breaking any rules, they aren't really causing problems. Your argument is that even though they are not breaking rules, they are causing problems. It has nothing to do with whether or not I might have missed one of your sacred verses of wisdom (which I didn't).
If you suggest that the system isn't perfect, I would LOVE to hear any suggestions you'd have for it.
Quote:I'm not doing this because it's Goku. I'm speaking on an overall basis. And, yes, as a matter of fact I would have a problem. So don't go speaking for me.
Then you've made my job a thousand times easier. If you are not doing this just because he is an important character, and we are not in a character shortage, then Kak is effectively not hurting a soul, and your entire argument is effectively moot.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Kollifum
Kako isn't on trial here.
Might want to repeat that a few times.
I'm sure all of this nonsense isn't driving any MIA dodgers to RP.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Recoome
But it is telling them that not everyone is pleased with how they conduct themselves.
But, what do the opinions of members matter? After all, staff is judge, jury, and executioner.
Staff have nothing to do with this, really. I'm quite intrigued by it.
Here we have members following the rules and other members telling them they suck (yeah, its an exaggeration, get over it).
Seriously, if I were one of these "MIA dodgers" I'd say "I don't give a shit how you think I should conduct myself, fuck you" and be done with it.
EDIT: This actually reminds me a lot of the whole gay marriage uproar. You have gay people wanting to do their thing, and other people saying "you can't do it the way you want to because we don't like it."
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
Yeah, that would be funny if most of this were being directed (in part) to me. I think the end result would give me a good chuckle.
Anyway, like Krillin said, I've heard the complaints, but haven't seen the propositions.
What do you want? A thousands words a day? Two thousand? A post every week? Eighteen posts a month?
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Reijin - 11-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Recoome
I'm aware that staff has nothing to do with this thread, per se. Rather, they have the power to change the rather leniant rules into those that are a bit more strict. MIA should be a punishment, not a walk in the park. Most that are MIA are so powerful, a few weeks TP won't even phase them, so that's not exactly a problem. And, what's a few weeks of inactivity as long as they get to keep their favorite characters in the end?
I'm well aware of what you'd say, based on how you carry yourself. But, you're not an MIA dodger, as such my comments aren't directed towards you. Thank God.
So what's your solution?
"You must make one 500 word roleplay per week in order to stay active. If you don't, you recieve no training and are moved to MIA. Another week without a roleplay, and we remove your character immediately. If you then come back, we restart you at basic stats on a trial period. If you become MIA more then twice within a three month period, you will lose your character, regardless of however long you've been here. This includes all staff, as while their top priority is the maintanence of this RPG, you are in no way special and if you can't handle being staff and roleplaying just as much as everyone else, then you should be staff only and not waste our time roleplaying a character."
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Kollifum
Personally I would be content with two posts a week.
Of what length and to what penalty?
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Recoome
but what would that solve?
I would argue that there's no problem, thus nothing to bother solving.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
So after one week they no longer recieve training points and have 80% MIA (you called it warning, but I thought calling it just MIA is a bit easier to follow).
While they have any MIA, their percentage does up each day they fail to post.
Posting twice every week reduces MIA.
When they reach a percentage less than or equal to zero MIA is removed.
Is that what you're proposing? I had a bit of trouble following your post.
If someone loses their character and then re-apps, what penalty (if any) do they suffer? How much percentage should be added per day? Would they lose additional percentage for posting more than twice per week? What about people who are gone for an extended period, do they just get to come back with MIA%? What about exceptions for life issues? So far its sounded like "get over it and find time to post."
EDIT: What about one 1,000 post per week? Or is your stance that frequency trumps length?
What about people with limited access?
What about someone to whom something happens they can't explain on the forums? (ie. loss of internet)
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Reijin - 11-13-2006
No. Aside from your blatant prodding at staff "What do staff members care" attitude, I'm showing you a realistic setup that would be considered strict. To prove the point, Koli even agreed that he'd take it to two posts a week. My point is that not everyone gets out of class, comes home, and sits down every single night planning to do this. Some people have one night a week to be allowed on their computer, schedule or parents permitting, and when roleplaying starts feeling like a required job, then its not worth it.
I want people to roleplay and enjoy it. What you don't understand is that to force people to do something they enjoy repeatedly makes them grow to dislike it. I like to eat tacos occasionally. Shit, I love tacos. If I had one once a week that'd be fantastic. If someone popped up though and I said "I'm not in the mood for a taco tonight, I want to get to sleep early" or a friend said "Hey, want to go hang out and eat pizza with me tonight?", I don't want to say "Ah, why the hell not, I have tacos all the time, no big" and then have my gf go "WTF? No, you are eating tacos tonight. And tomorrow night. And the night after. If you want pizza, you can eat pizza in addition to tacos, but you are eating tacos or you can stop eating at all."
Substitute "eating tacos" for "writing a roleplay" and "pizza" for "being staff" or "having a real life ahead of Chubbs" and its dead on accurate.
This is just getting ridiculous. Its exactly like the gay marraige thing, as Rad said. "I don't like you falling in love with another man, despite it literally not affecting me at all, so I don't think you should be allowed to do it at all, despite it being legal. Therefore, I demand we make it illegal" I don't want to burn people out by forcing them to roleplay too often, but at the same time, I want them to roleplay enough to still be worth doing. We feel that too tight of a grip is wrong but there should be something to grip there.
We try to alleviate this by working on adding new content to cause people to constantly not be burned out and instead feel innovated and want to interact more. That's how we try to solve it, not by removing members. We can't even focus on the new content though because that's not good enough. Who cares if someone wrote up a ton of stuff for an Info Vault for you to roleplay with? That jerkoff hits MIA too often and needs to lose his character. Oh, while we are at it, when he does, can I switch to him?
That's the other point I want to make. This happens over Vejita. This happens over Goku. Trunks. Broli.
I've yet to see people bitch so much about Metal Koola. Sure, people have made comments, but he does similar and we don't see NEAR as much complaining over them. Nor other lower characters. Why? Because nearly everytime the arguement is that the people want to switch to that guy. They want US to remove the person so THEY can be them, although its completely seperate circumstances.
We made rules, they are within those rules and abiding by them, and we see very little reason to change those rules. Those rules are obviously not affecting you, so why do you wish them to be modified to fit your specific schedule? We have many members here to accomodate, and we can't lock that into one set type. We have to be acceptable to that hardcore power gamer just as much as the casual gamer, and its not fair on anyone to shut out the casual gamers.
Kakarot may not care to post too often. Nor Broli. However, they still care enough to post casually under our rules. They follow the rules, and while they take advantage of them, they enjoy roleplaying a more casual setting. They have a different interest in roleplaying then you do, and I'm not going to demand they change that.
As someone said, why do you want those characters open so bad? Two arguements were made: 1- "I don't want them open, I want to roleplay with them." To me that's saying "I want to force this girl to go out with me despite her obviously not wanting to. Make it so." Why do you want to rp with him so bad? They are basically minor characters in the CDBZ universe, so if DBZ itself never existed, they'd be the side "one episode" guys that appeared if we were the real one, which means noone would want to be them in RPGs based off of this, they'd want Rad and 18 instead as the "main characters". 2- "I want to join as them/have a friend that wants him/think they are a disgrace and just need to have someone else on the character". I have yet to go join another RPG and demand they start evicting characters to accomodate me. When I joined Zento, I was Paragus. I wanted another guy, but I was told "Why do you have to have Trunks/Vejita/Goku/etc. You can just mold this character into what you want and essentially do similar with him in style." I learned to deal with it and found myself enjoying it just as much. I liked the others still, and took FT when he was available here, but I didn't demand the others hand over their characters for inactivity, and they HAD no inactivity rule.
EDIT: The absolute bottom line is that we have a variety of people and schedules to work with, and I'm sorry that one specific type of activity level feels they should be the only people allowed to do it at all.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Kollifum
Inexplicable stuff would probably be handled like it is now, on a case by case basis, right? You can't expect me to have a plausable answer for -every- life issue before it occurs. I'd have to see it, assess it. If it's like...you're mom is in a car accident, it's understandable. If it's like 'I had some guys over, we played X-box for two days straight and I passed out for another 14 hours afterwards' I wouldn't be brushing it away like it was perfectly ok.
Hahahahahahahhaa.... oh shit. You've never been staff then.
Quote:Originally posted by Kollifum
Do we actually have limited access people? I mean, I understand like...no internet after 9 o'clock, but do you mean 'only on a computer once a week'?
Yeah, we do. Look at Reijin. Or Bra.
Quote:Originally posted by Kollifum
I'm thinking percentage per day could be 10, actually. Easier to keep track of.
So after nine days you lose your character. Ok.
Quote:Originally posted by Kollifum
I don't think posting more then twice would allow for extended percentage loss, but it would give more activity. IE: After the third post, they'd have the time before MIA % due to inactivity became a problem again reset.
That would mean that after missing one week, it would take you three weeks to remove the MIA. That means that we're taking away three weeks of TP because you missed one. That sounds fair to you?
I'm not going to get into the Rei/Rec thing, but Rei made some good points. Why do you want to force people to go at a pace that's not theirs?
EDIT: Ok, I came up with something. Kolli, if you post more than once every week I'm banning you.
I'm serious.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Krillin - 11-13-2006
I'm not even going to bother anymore. This argument is getting way too big and rhetorical. This is a simple issue. The argument should be simple. The fact that it's expanded into a gross pulpy shitpile is evidence that at least one party did not enter this with an open mind.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Belle Hibiki - 11-13-2006
I have a problem with the idea of harsher restrictions, because they're not needed. Part of the reasoning for wanting a stricter MIA system is that it would get more people out interacting with the community, correct? That would be one of the main goals? To give players some active people to roleplay with?
Now, when the heck has there ever been a shortage of these kinds of people? Last time I checked, there were more than a few characters willing to post back and forth a couple times a week. Akane springs to mind, as does Pigero, yourself (Kolli), Jeice given by just the sheer volume of stuff he's posted in PC3 over the last week, and probably a few others.
If no one was posting IC at all, I could understand harsher restrictions, but there is plenty of potential for everyone who wants to to enjoy themselves. So what if it means you're playing with the relative unknowns of the DBZ universe, and not Goku/Vegeta/et al? The show means next to nothing here, as has been stated before. I just don't see why harsher restrictions are needed when there are plenty of people playing a lot anyway.
Edit2: Sorry if some of this stuff has been posted before. I haven't read the entire thread -in depth-, just skimmed it, but this is what jumped out to me, and I felt I had to throw in my two cents.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Reijin - 11-13-2006
First off, quit acting like I'm flaming you. Second, stop trying to regularly turn this into a "staff picking on the lowly member" thing.
Using what Rad said earlier, would you find it fair if I told you that no matter how often you wished to roleplay, you are now allowed to roleplayonce a week, with a post limit of 1000 words? I mean, I don't think anyone would be happy being forced to revolve around someone else's schedule.
"Gay Marraige" I am not the one who brought that up. Rad did. I simply recalled it, because I agree with his point. So what if you can find one person who disagrees with it based on their own religious belief. I can find people to back me up, and then you can find more people to back you up, and we could be at it for hours. The simple point in this is that regardless of anyone's stance there, what someone wishes to do as far as roleplaying should not be heavily enforced. It doesn't affect you.
Quote:But, with him being as busy/lazy as he is, I may never get that chance, until sagas, which I'm not too fond of.
So I assume that in this instance we should now tell you that you are required to participate in all staff sagas, despite that not being what you want to join? It is why you are here, to write, and regardless of whether its not the style you wish, should we tell you that you have to? No. That's not fair. No, this isn't twisting your words, this is exactly the point you are conveying. You feel that because you want to roleplay with him, and he isn't posting as often as you are, you don't want to wait that long for him to post and aren't willing to slow down to his activity level, so rather than make those sacrifices, you feel he should put this website as one of his higher priorities in the line of his interests? If he wants to spar with you, and is willing to sacrifice the time to do so, its that simple, he'll do it. If he doesn't, I'm sorry, he won't.
Quote:But, if you join, grow disinterested, and decide to only perform the bare minimum, what are you really accomplishing?
When I joined this site, I was living with my parents. I had internet access only on the weekends if I was allowed to go to my grandmother's house. That was about once every two weeks. Maybe even three. Otherwise, the time that I had was limited to about fiteen minutes of a quick check during my tech class, hoping not to get caught (which I did frequently). I had no time to constantly post, but I enjoyed the site and enjoyed my passion to write, and while I couldn't blow off my school work to focus on a roleplay, I could still quickly skim what was happening and give my input on things. Which recieved a reply. To which I had to respond. Sorta like now. I'm planning to roleplay tonight, as usual. Instead, I'm dealing with something because "its my job to" which is fine, I accept that. But I'm then reminded that "I was a member before staff" which I assume means "You had your chance to roleplay already, so now you moved on to staff work" but I disagree. I don't feel that since I was a member that moved to staff that I no longer am allowed to be a member. Thank god when I could only get on once every two - three weeks as far as making roleplays went I didn't get kicked years ago and never grow to love writing even more. I mean, I would roleplay as well as possible when I went to my grandparents, but my real parents were nazis that didn't let me.
The point I'm making is that other people have similar situations.
For all it matters, those people may just not feel like getting on often. Someone may have said "Hey man, just join up the site and post every now and then, you aren't forced to be there every single day or week." Should I say "No, fuck you, you aren't allowed to eat at this restuarant if you don't do so on a weekly basis".
The bottom line is that we have gamers of different types. Power gamers, who enjoy doing their gaming or writing or whatever medium regulary, daily, as much as possible, to get the full enjoyment from it. To them, gaming/writing is not a hobby, its a lifestyle, and they feel that people who don't do it as often as them obviously don't respect it as much as they do and thus are lumped into the category with people who don't do it at all, since they "barely do it". Then you have casual gamers, who go "I'd like to be able to sit down every now and then and enjoy this without being forced to constantly focus on this at the exclusion of my other variety of interests." MMORPGs deal with this in guilds. Guilds appear that want to do raiding every single night, others are a 2/3 mandatory raiding a week, others are like raid on Friday nights, and others are a group of friends that go "Hey, whenever we get on, we can play together if someone else happens to be on, cool".
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Vegeta - 11-13-2006
LOL, it's all irrelevant as the MIA coding can't/won't be changed. These "200 words per week" and "1000 words over 3 posts per week" things are going to be overly complicated and waste VJ's limited time and the staff's time if we are forced to do it manually.
It's all sort of moot, if you don't post you are removed. If you post you can stay. I don't think there ever should be a requirement beyond that.
If people don't post enough for you find someone to RP with who is more your speed. There are some people who like to post back and forth entire threads in a day, and others who don't have that kind of time or drive and would like to have that take place over a few weeks. Members shouldn't be kicked out simply because they don't post enough for you.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by Waffuru
LOL, it's all irrelevant as the MIA coding can't/won't be changed. These "200 words per week" and "1000 words over 3 posts per week" things are going to be overly complicated and waste VJ's limited time and the staff's time if we are forced to do it manually.
=(
I was building up to that. Jerk.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Vegeta - 11-13-2006
=(
I got tired of waiting for you.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Raditzu - 11-13-2006
Story of my life.
The difference between a roleplayer and a place holder - Bardock - 11-13-2006
All the discussion has boiled down to is people reiterating their points over and over again.
"MIA dodgers should be made to post more!"
"Freedom within the rules!"
That's basically both cases in a nutshell.