07-05-2009, 12:55 PM
Rod Hardwood Wrote:separation of church and state was a blurb out of a private letter.
A blurb that reveals the intent of at least one major founding father (Thomas Jefferson). Never mind that James Madison often used the very same phrase in his writings, and never mind that the philosopher John Locke can be found all throughout America's late 18th-century governmental documents.
Separation of Church and State isn't something that was magically wafted out of thin air, though it is very easy for people who want to believe that to put together an argument built upon the underemphasis of key points.
Quote:that it's been used to interpret the US Constitution while the Declaration of Independence (you know, the document outlining the purpose of the revolutionary war, the very same which this holiday revolves around) was dismissed for usage of the same purpose is ridiculous. if you'd actually go back and set a context for Jefferson's letter by using his actions during his presidential terms - regularly using federal buildings for religious purposes, for instance, something that if done today would cause 10,000 athiests' heads to simultaneously explode before you could say "theocracy" - people would come to a very different conclusion about what he meant.
Jefferson had slaves too, but we still think all people should be equal. Hypocrisy should not stop us from grasping on to valuable themes.
Quote:but no, the most common use of it is to quote it without historical context so that the people who are quick to quote it can shove in their own views, and i've even seen people who think that it's actually a clause of the constitution :/
the actual constitutional passage that the blurb has been so poorly used on is amendment 1, article 1 of the bill of rights: "the congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise of the practice thereof." while the prohibition against law respecting an establishment of religion has been upheld, the free practice clause has been thoroughly and repeatedly trashed by judicial activism prompted by an obnoxious minority which hinge on - once again - a blurb from a private letter. if anything the exercise of religion has long been under siege by the zealous secularists, not the other way around
Huh? How has the free exercise of religion been trashed?
Quote:in short: if you don't like that people choose to vote for what they want when it's their constitutional right to do so then tough shit, stupid. maybe you'd have a better time if you stopped ignorantly parroting ironic talking points
I'm fully aware that everyone has a right to vote. I also think that many (can't give an exact percentage, but it'd be at least 10%, and probably not higher than 30%) Americans are morons. Some in this category do not believe evolution occurs, nor would they ever consider voting for an atheist President (even if that individual were far more qualified, intelligent, etc. than the religious alternative).
And, for the record, you're not the only one with a mind of your own. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am a parrot, or ignorant, or some sort of deviant. Be respectful.