The Like/Hate thread (WoW)

[Ashe]

Like: Finally having good enough gear to do heroics.
Hate: Being the lowest dps EVERY. DAMN. TIME. and people bitching. I tell them every time that I'm working on getting geared, hence the heroics. But I feel awful getting carried every single time. :[

With that said, I have 35 emblems of triumph, should I save up for these pants: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48074 (which I reallllly need), or just go ahead and buy some gloves or shoulders from this set: http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=849 so I could maybe do some decent dps. I've been reading shadow priest guides and they say to get hit capped first, so I'm thinking about possibly getting the gloves first, and then I can enchant them for +20 hit rating. Any ideas guys? Thanks!

Edit, forgot to add my armory link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet...n=Auralise

get hit capped before even thinking about another stat. thankfully spriests have a good plus hit talent to get them there on less gear.

[Vad]

FYI don't go too high with hit rating. You'll start hitting too much. Which is bad. You'll generate more threat than you need to.

[Kole T. Merr]

So, to sum up the advice of the last two posts:

You need your hit rating at maximum, just make sure it's not too high.

[Ashe]

FYI don't go too high with hit rating. You'll start hitting too much. Which is bad. You'll generate more threat than you need to.

What? I don't think you realize how hit works. The hit "cap" is the amount you need to achieve a specific amount of hit before certain avoidance mechanics are added in. I can't remember the exact number, but I think the 1% guaranteed miss chance was removed, so you can cap completely now. You always want that cap. You NEVER calculate your dps based on "hoping you miss". That's about the most inefficient thing I've ever heard. If you are having threat problems, figure out the best rotation to keep your threat down while using thread drop abilities, as well as keeping up with people that can help get your threat.

If you absolutely are riding the top of the threat and the tank (who is clearly either undergeared or not doing a great drop with a max threat rotation, the first of which is entirely understandable - this is why a lot of tanks swap survival gear out for dps gear on things like trash, to help snatch immediate threat) just can't keep up, then YOU are doing something wrong, and its not with how you are geared. You should pay attention to your threat (this is coming from someone that has to take into account that my DoTs might push me over the edge even if I completely stop dpsing) and if you have no way to clear your threat, stay past (I believe its 30 yards) melee range (you get increased threat while in that range) and stop dpsing. Stop casting, whatever you have to do. Its usually ok to start wanding or something, but if you can't even do that, then just stand there for a short term till your threat lowers. I've had to do it and it sucks, because you are competing for dps a lot and that kills your dps, but that's how it works out sometimes.

[Kaden]

Is there actually a reason to compete for DPS or is just, like, what people do?

(I understand the whole epeen aspect of it, I just wasn't expecting that people would demand classes like Priests to meet a minimum threshold of DPS. There are other mechanics in the game.)

[Ashe]

Is there actually a reason to compete for DPS or is just, like, what people do?

(I understand the whole epeen aspect of it, I just wasn't expecting that people would demand classes like Priests to meet a minimum threshold of DPS. There are other mechanics in the game.)

A healing character of any class is not expected to meet any standard of DPS.

If they are intending to fulfill a role of DPS, however (a priest specced Shadow, for example, for DPS) then that means someone else is taking the slots of healing and tanking. If the person isn't making a minimal accepted contribution, then they are essentially not contributing and may as well be afk through the fight. The less damage one person may be doing, the more damage another must do to make up for this missing amount. Take into account also healer mana only lasting so long. If a dps does something dumb and dies, you can assume that all potential dps from them for the rest of the fight has to now be split amongst the remainder.

Due to fight mechanics, also, there are some fights where it can even be beneficial to just sit the low dpser out if they are in a fight that say requires everyone to move in unison back and forth to certain spots to stay alive, or to spread out at certain points a minimum distance from every other person in the area while slowed at risk of causing damage, or them getting a bomb on them (like Zilean), and actually BEING afk or not paying attention, thus blowing the entire raid up and causing a wipe.

Most people (absolute idiots are the exception) don't sit and go "ok, you were lowest dps, you suck" if its something really close in the runnings. But if its like DPS1 - 6700, DPS2 - 6500, Tank - 4500, DPS3 - 4000, Healer - 200. DPS3 is doing TERRIBLE in this situation. They can have another Tank completely replace them, do a BETTER job than them at DPS contribution, AND BE PERFORMING ANOTHER ROLE at the same time. So the most common reason is A - that dps is pretty much watching tv and letting you carry him through the place for gear, B - that dps has no idea how to play his character or about the fight and is just hitting a fireball button every now and then, C - They died extremely early that fight, and keep doing this, D - He's undergeared. Situations C and D are the only acceptable reasons. But both are only acceptable for so long. For C, you should become familiar with the fight so that you aren't dying and being a burden for everyone else to make up for (they can replace you with someone who doesn't just stand in a fire for 9 seconds until he dies rather than take two steps to get out of it) and use situational awareness.

For D, you can't ride this excuse forever - if you are playing with friends or know your character, then you should have no problem getting properly geared, especially if you understand how to gear your character correctly (don't be a warlock with mp5, for example, and strength gear). No one minds the fresh 80 that is in leveling gear. Everyone minds the level 80 that's been that for months and is still wearing level 72 greens when he can simply finish some quests in the last zones for easy gear upgrades or even do some instances (do lower level stuff to get upgrades, you don't try to jump from point A to point Q and then expect them to hand you gear that they are working for when you aren't even at the threshold to contribute in that instance).

[Kaden]

Makes sense.

Out of curiosity, are those DPS numbers you used based on actual expected levels of performance, or did you just make them up?

[Ashe]

Makes sense.

Out of curiosity, are those DPS numbers you used based on actual expected levels of performance, or did you just make them up?

I'd say somewhere in the vicinity of realism to the best of my knowledge, but I am not exactly following things closely enough (nor playing) right now to verify them as actual current numbers. I want to say avg dps is in the 4-6k range right now though but don't ask me to back that up.

[Vad]

What? I don't think you realize how hit works. The hit "cap" is the amount you need to achieve a specific amount of hit before certain avoidance mechanics are added in. I can't remember the exact number, but I think the 1% guaranteed miss chance was removed, so you can cap completely now. You always want that cap. You NEVER calculate your dps based on "hoping you miss". That's about the most inefficient thing I've ever heard. If you are having threat problems, figure out the best rotation to keep your threat down while using thread drop abilities, as well as keeping up with people that can help get your threat.

If you absolutely are riding the top of the threat and the tank (who is clearly either undergeared or not doing a great drop with a max threat rotation, the first of which is entirely understandable - this is why a lot of tanks swap survival gear out for dps gear on things like trash, to help snatch immediate threat) just can't keep up, then YOU are doing something wrong, and its not with how you are geared. You should pay attention to your threat (this is coming from someone that has to take into account that my DoTs might push me over the edge even if I completely stop dpsing) and if you have no way to clear your threat, stay past (I believe its 30 yards) melee range (you get increased threat while in that range) and stop dpsing. Stop casting, whatever you have to do. Its usually ok to start wanding or something, but if you can't even do that, then just stand there for a short term till your threat lowers. I've had to do it and it sucks, because you are competing for dps a lot and that kills your dps, but that's how it works out sometimes.

We went from Hit rating to DPS here. Hit rating allows you to hit mobs that are higher in level than you. Example: You're 80, you can now hit level 87 elites. With too much hit rating you'll hit everything and create more threat than you need to. My buddy is a druid tank he has (ball parking here, I can look today.) 21% hit rating. That's bad. A) because his gear isn't good enough where people want him to main tank, and B) When he's off tanking he pulls too much threat. Though a competent tank shouldn't have an issue, they don't like his hit rating being so high.

To reiterate. Hit rating is your chance to hit a target your level or higher.

[Tyr]

If you are having threat problems, figure out the best rotation to keep your threat down while using thread drop abilities, as well as keeping up with people that can help get your threat.

Awesome mistake. Thread drop abilities.

Vad that honestly means your friend is bad at handling his DPS or your tank is bad at handling aggro. I don't see any way why someone should be worried about hitting too much with hit %. Nevertheless this discussion is rather futile because unless the tank literally eats retardation for breakfast there's no way a spriest is going to take aggro from him. Mind I'm not saying this because 'spriests suck' but because their DPS isn't bursty enough.

[Kaden]

@Vad: Ashe knows that.

He's saying that you should always hit, but it's the responsibility of the person playing to know when to hit.

Metagame WoW is, if nothing else, about consistent performance. Can't even guess what that will be for someone if they don't even know when their hits will land.

[Waffuru]

everyone should always hit cap 1st

missing is for losers

[Vad]

>.>

But my statement did not state you should miss. I merely said don't go too high with your hit rating. People don't like it.

[Belle Hibiki]

You should get hit to the hit cap. There is no such thing as "hitting too much" to draw aggro in the endgame. Your tanks should always, always, always be able to out-threat your DPS, assuming they're in any way competent and appropriately geared, no matter how much hit you have.

Hit rating is the best stat for everyone until they reach the specials (8% for melee) and spell cap (17%). To say "don't stack it!" because you're afraid of threat is just ... silly.

[Ashe]

>.>

But my statement did not state you should miss. I merely said don't go too high with your hit rating. People don't like it.

That's not what people are saying. People don't like that you are saying "fire till you go blind at the thing, you should gear with the hope of missing __% though". That's entirely false. You have complete control over when to use your abilities and when to not use them. Anyone can stop attacking. You need to know that when you use your move, whether its a simple attack or an ability like Misdirect (Do you really want the Hunter to miss randomly because he didn't cover it and thus end up screwing that attempt up? Keep in mind I'm making a random statement as far as which ability though; I don't even know if Misdirect CAN miss necessarily, though I assume it can.)

If you are hoping to miss a certain amount of your hits, then you are INEFFICIENT. You are wasting mana (or whatever resource). Think about it. You have two outcomes to avoid threat going over the top. A - You stop attacking and wait till the tank gets sufficient threat above you again before you continue. B - You keep shooting fireballs while watching tv and hope that your threat maintains itself all on its own by random miss chance. Choice A means you have full control and also never burn mana for zero outcome. Choice B means you are under the mercy of the Random Number Generator and also burn a random 1000 mana with no gain from that.

---

Now, the reason people say don't overstack Hit is what Belle said - Its a hit CAP. As in, any hit that you get above whatever your cap is (some have a soft cap - an assumed cap that gets made up for by raid buffs or maybe a proc that fires off fairly often. You aren't technically capped, but for most intents in execution, you are.) is just wasted stat points. If you have 100% hit chance (ignoring avoidance mechanics), then you can not gain any benefit from more hit on gear. Having 100% hit means you hit every time. Having 150% hit means you hit every time. That extra 50% value from Hit stats on your gear should be replaced with more +dmg or something. Because you want the maximum value of damage each time you hit (If you are absolutely sure that you are hitting for 30 points each hit, you are better than the guy that's super seriously absolutely guaranteed no mistake fucking accurate at hitting for 5 points each hit, if both of you are still unable to miss.)

By the way, thanks Belle. Yeah, 17% is the new spell hit cap. I knew they removed the 1% guaranteed miss chance that stats couldn't overcome once Wrath hit (to reduce RNG, no less, just pointing that out Vad - doesn't that scream "plz cap hit"?) but couldn't remember the exact percent that was (I'll check what the Hit number is sometime, but its pretty much different for every class given the ones with Hit talents and such being thrown in). It was 16% before Wrath.

---

One additional point behind it for Vad - if you are intentionally gimping hit and praying for miss streaks to compensate for the tank not holding threat (again, sometimes that's legit and they can't help it, and sometimes they are just bad tanks - and we are not talking situations of "first five seconds everyone blows high threat moves when the tank hasn't had a chance for snap aggro yet"), then what do you do when you are grouped with a tank that CAN hold threat with no problems? You are then not putting out much threat, but also not putting out much damage either (you keep missing).

[Vad]

I'm sending missed signals here. I'll get back to you...or not.

[Ashe]

I'm sending missed signals here. I'll get back to you...or not.

Sounds like you should cap your hit.

[Vad]

Sounds like you should cap your hit.

xD!



Whore...

[Milk Bubble]

Hate: Can't decide what to level next. I've got it down to either a paladin or warlock.

Paladin:
- I can pick whatever role I decide to play
- Easy to level
- I kind of dislike having pets, so it's good they don't have one
- Great in PVP

Warlock:
- I enjoy being ranged damage
- Same gameplay kind of as shadowpriest so I'll kind of know what I'm doing
- Easy to level
- I'm sure they're awesome in PVP but I'm kind of bad at them here, but hopefully I could get better

Any ideas?

Ps. I already bought the +10% xp heirloom shoulders for a paladin, but I could easily save up for some for a warlock. Or just go without, it's not that hard.

[Kazuya]

Both are pretty fun.