The Like/Hate thread (WoW)

[Vad]

So... let me understand this. Your argument is "The tooltips do not specifically tell you a list of every situation to cast the spells in, so they should nerf the content back to aoe grinding all instances"? They can't just say "Interrupts the opponent" and should instead say "Interrupts the opponent's spell, THIS WILL HELP YOU DEFEAT HIM." Or else they should nerf the content to compensate for this.

???

Essentially that's what she's saying.

[Milk Bubble]

So... let me understand this. Your argument is "The tooltips do not specifically tell you a list of every situation to cast the spells in, so they should nerf the content back to aoe grinding all instances"? They can't just say "Interrupts the opponent" and should instead say "Interrupts the opponent's spell, THIS WILL HELP YOU DEFEAT HIM." Or else they should nerf the content to compensate for this.

???

No, I said they SHOULDN'T nerf the content, if you read my above post where I changed my mind. I said instead while leveling to 85 they should teach you the importance of interrupts and CC, things you will need to know at 85.

I change my mind, I don't think they should nerf the content.

??

[Milk Bubble]

Essentially that's what she's saying.

No, that's not what I was saying. But thanks for not reading what I posted and then being an ass about it.

[Blue]

Like: fun times

Hates: that Blizzard makes over 15 million a month on this game. v.v

[Rafael]

My guess is Milk Bubble wants Deadly Boss mods built into the game, which it totally could be, with a toggle to turn it off

[Vad]

No, that's not what I was saying. But thanks for not reading what I posted and then being an ass about it.

Except that I wasn't replying to the fact that you changed your mind. I was replying to the post about tooltips and spell descriptions. I disagree. The game teaches you plenty 1 through 85.

[Milk Bubble]

Except that I wasn't replying to the fact that you changed your mind. I was replying to the post about tooltips and spell descriptions. I disagree. The game teaches you plenty 1 through 85.

Go sit someone down who has never played WoW before, let them level a character to 85 without going to any outside websites, and see if they can survive in a PUG heroic. I dare you.

[Vad]

Go sit someone down who has never played WoW before, let them level a character to 85 without going to any outside websites, and see if they can survive in a PUG heroic. I dare you.

They'd have a better chance now than in vanilla, Emily. The game is stupid easy comparatively speaking.

[Milk Bubble]

They'd have a better chance now than in vanilla, Emily. The game is stupid easy comparatively speaking.

It is, until you get level 85. Which is exactly what I was saying, the other 84 levels don't prepare you for the maximum level of content. They are "stupid easy" as you just said.

[Ashe]

People should learn their characters in the content that is offered at a reduced difficulty before entering the higher tier content. Instead of wanting higher content nerfed so they can skip "because they just want gear for raids" to then go wreck THOSE instances by not knowing their character, they could actually run the non-heroic versions and learn their roles in those. Someone should not be immediately pugging level 85 heroics out the gate. The game blocks it to an extent, but the very fact that it allows what you are suggesting of being able to carry someone to gear causes the problem you are complaining about - people are get carried to points that they no longer know how to play their characters, but are able to get into the groups regardless and blame others for the fact, because "they have the gear to prove they know what they are doing".

EDIT: To restate this - there is content there at reduced difficulty FOR level 85 characters. The gear isn't as good, but that's something people have to get over. You are not getting the max reward for doing the content you aren't ready for absolutely free. They've made a lot of changes in this game to help lower level characters. You are asking that every time they put out a new boss or instance, there be a set of instructions and circles on the ground explaining the most efficient way to do every fight so that there's no "annoying wiping" figuring things out. That's a part of the game that a lot of people enjoy. Figuring out the content.

[Vad]

People should learn their characters in the content that is offered at a reduced difficulty before entering the higher tier content. Instead of wanting higher content nerfed so they can skip "because they just want gear for raids" to then go wreck THOSE instances by not knowing their character, they could actually run the non-heroic versions and learn their roles in those. Someone should not be immediately pugging level 85 heroics out the gate. The game blocks it to an extent, but the very fact that it allows what you are suggesting of being able to carry someone to gear causes the problem you are complaining about - people are get carried to points that they no longer know how to play their characters, but are able to get into the groups regardless and blame others for the fact, because "they have the gear to prove they know what they are doing".

EDIT: To restate this - there is content there at reduced difficulty FOR level 85 characters. The gear isn't as good, but that's something people have to get over. You are not getting the max reward for doing the content you aren't ready for absolutely free. They've made a lot of changes in this game to help lower level characters. You are asking that every time they put out a new boss or instance, there be a set of instructions and circles on the ground explaining the most efficient way to do every fight so that there's no "annoying wiping" figuring things out. That's a part of the game that a lot of people enjoy. Figuring out the content.

Agreed. Took us a couple tries to figure out General Rajaxx T.T

[Waffuru]

I don't think the point is for everyone to be able to complete every new piece of content as soon as it drops but for people to have a chance to complete game content without having to look up what the highest DPS rotation is or every little quirk of the fight. A lot of the content seems to want to be a puzzle with a single solution, and one that you have to watch a 30 minute explanation of on youtube first.

I think the sheer amount of data mining and higher level math that people apply to the game shows that they aren't giving you enough guidance in game. I think you would have a hell of a time as a new person playing the game without any addons or guides from websites. They have not done the best job of teaching people to play and certainly not to the absolute peak (maximum DPS, best gear, etc) that people find.

When they build the new content they assume everyone has perfect information, which is an obvious error as not all the information is made available. game theory ftw?

[Vad]

I don't think the point is for everyone to be able to complete every new piece of content as soon as it drops but for people to have a chance to complete game content without having to look up what the highest DPS rotation is or every little quirk of the fight. A lot of the content seems to want to be a puzzle with a single solution, and one that you have to watch a 30 minute explanation of on youtube first.

I think the sheer amount of data mining and higher level math that people apply to the game shows that they aren't giving you enough guidance in game. I think you would have a hell of a time as a new person playing the game without any addons or guides from websites. They have not done the best job of teaching people to play and certainly not to the absolute peak (maximum DPS, best gear, etc) that people find.

When they build the new content they assume everyone has perfect information, which is an obvious error as not all the information is made available. game theory ftw?

I do agree that they don't directly sit you down and teach you what you're supposed to do and why, but then again we're talking about a company run by Activision here. When have they ever given a fuck about the customer? I wouldn't be surprised if they were happy with a turnover rate because people can't learn, but as LONG as they buy a full account and then quit they don't care.

I learned everything I know from participating in 40 man raids and using CTRaid which eventually was replaced with Deadly Boss Mods and other Raid GUI mods. Blizzard added the dungeon system to stop "LFG" in the cities. Traveling on foot/flightmaster was how you got around to instances and raids. To curb this for new people they made a dungeon queue. Then they added their own Raid GUI (which blows, Xperl FTW).

Now in Cataclysm they removed the portals, but gave us flying mounts everywhere.

[Waffuru]

I learned everything I know from participating in 40 man raids and using CTRaid which eventually was replaced with Deadly Boss Mods and other Raid GUI mods.

That's exactly the problem though, they've designed it assuming that everyone knows the same thing... and then if they don't they're relying on the player base to teach people how to play. Turns out most people on the internet are assholes because they're 12 years old or anonymity gives them huge stones.

[Vad]

That's exactly the problem though, they've designed it assuming that everyone knows the same thing... and then if they don't they're relying on the player base to teach people how to play. Turns out most people on the internet are assholes because they're 12 years old or anonymity gives them huge stones.

No need to tell me. I'm well aware of the massive shit hole that is "the Internet."

[Milk Bubble]

All of the shit I said in my post was pretty much exactly what Waffuru said.

Even the post to the WoW forums I linked went into more depth than what he posted. Did you guys even read what I posted? Seriously.

[Vad]

All of the shit I said in my post was pretty much exactly what Waffuru said.

Even the post to the WoW forums I linked went into more depth than what he posted. Did you guys even read what I posted? Seriously.

I'm done in this thread and here's why.

Twice now I've posted my opinion or agreed with someone else and twice now you've nabbed me on AIM to lecture me about how my statements were "me being an ass." This isn't an isolated incident and I'm fucking tired of it. You make me feel guilty and depressed, because I happened to disagree with you in a way you didn't like. You continued on to say that I "never apologize". I can't even count on my fingers the times I've apologized to people on this forum for mistakes I've made in regards to conversation. My conscience is pretty good at catching such remarks.

Back on topic.

If people spent more time learning the game and reading their tool tips and spells then it wouldn't be an issue. People need to play like we do LoL. We learn the game mechanics of each character/item and then build according to the threat on the field.


/end rant

[Milk Bubble]

I'm done in this thread and here's why.

Twice now I've posted my opinion or agreed with someone else and twice now you've nabbed me on AIM to lecture me about how my statements were "me being an ass." This isn't an isolated incident and I'm fucking tired of it. You make me feel guilty and depressed, because I happened to disagree with you in a way you didn't like. You continued on to say that I "never apologize". I can't even count on my fingers the times I've apologized to people on this forum for mistakes I've made in regards to conversation. My conscience is pretty good at catching such remarks.

Back on topic.

If people spent more time learning the game and reading their tool tips and spells then it wouldn't be an issue. People need to play like we do LoL. We learn the game mechanics of each character/item and then build according to the threat on the field.


/end rant

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/learn

Everyone knows about this, right?

So how many people do you think go to that, compared to how many people see this?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/guide/

And I'm not going to comment on the first part, because I don't want to make you feel "guilty and depressed" more. Because I'm not an ass.

[Majicka]

Edit: Woah, totally went to the wrong page.

[Kole T. Merr]

And I'm not going to comment on the first part, because I don't want to make you feel "guilty and depressed" more. Because I'm not an ass.

I see what you did there.

The problem with WoW is that there's only one "right" way to do anything in the endgame. However, unless you are a complete retard, you can google and find the "right" way. I'm sure that at some point, someone had to trial and error their way through these endgame dungeons with different equips and specs until they found one that worked. It's possible. You don't "need" guides to tell you how to play, you don't "need" other players to tell you how to play, but I'm willing to bet that it's really helpful. That's why they make strategy guides for games. They can help you figure something out, but you don't need them.