Wrestling

[Krillin]

So much for innocent until proven guilty, eh? I mean seriously. America is a great place where people can speculate and automatically fingerpoint guilt to someone just because they were in the same proximity. I mean, no knowing all the facts and then deducing he was a murder isn't being logical, its being stupid. I take offense to the automatic deducing of guilt, because not a single one of us can claim that Benoit is indeed a murderer.

Violet, the evidence is overwhelming. I noted earlier that I'm assuming all this, but c'mon. Benoit's wife is killed on Friday, his son is killed on Saturday, and he commits suicide on Sunday? That's too messy of a time-frame for a third party to be involved. I think it's pretty safe to say Benoit did it. If you don't think the same way, then we clearly have different definitions of what is 'conclusive' and what is not.

And even IF he did it, he surely couldn't have been in the right state of mind.

Right, because he's just such a swell guy. Have you met him personally?

[Aqua]

Toxicology report came out. Chris Benoit was not only on testosterone, but he had several other drugs in his system as well. Apparently, his wife had traces of drugs in her system as well. There is speculation that the entire murder/ suicude is in keeping with a bazarre religious ritual. I missed the whole report because I was on deadline, but I'm sure it will be in print soon.

I hope the bastard is burning in the deepest pit of hell for what he did to that child.

[Raditzu]

Maybe he's in heaven for holding the ritual.

=O

Betcha didn't think of that one.

[Krillin]

Not to be a total dick, but Violet? You still think he's innocent?

[Aqua]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/17/wrestle...index.html

A fuller report ^

[Violet]

Not to be a total dick, but Violet? You still think he's innocent?

There was no steroids in his system. Yes, there is still a slight possiblity that he is indeed innocent. I mean, seriously, someone could have drugged them, or was an accidental drugging. I am thinking intentional, however. Really, based upon his closest friends were describing him as, its still going to be difficult to make me think he could seriously do this to his own son. This guy took his kid out to ALL his events. The kid worshipped him. With a bond like that, it doesn't take an idiot to realize that that kind of father/son relationship they had, he wouldn't have ever killed his son.

I am still speculating on murder here, not a double murder suicide as it is believed to be. I am not clear on much of the details on how exactly chris killed himself outside of the preliminary reports, did they ever show what the machine he hung himself by looks like? I heard it was a weight bench, if i am not mistaken. Chris was a short guy, like, 5'6". his arms were pretty short as well, so if there was something like, a rope on a weight bench, you know what those look like? it would have been very difficult for someone like him.


Anyhoo, now i am ranting. My point, I still believe he couldn't have done this. Setup to da max. This whole case is bizzare, so there is still room to believe in his innocence.

[Kami]

There was no steroids in his system.

=(

MSNBC.com article says yes

"Steroids, other drugs found in Benoit's body"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19810373/

[Krillin]

If there was any possibility that he hadn't committed suicide, Violet, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be calling it a suicide.

Appearances mean dick. The human mind is too complex to base absolutes on what has happened in the past. I really don't think an intelligent, logical person can confront these facts and conclude that Benoit might not be guilty. That's not meant to be a potshot, mind you. I know you're logical. That's why I'm confused.

[Raditzu]

The article Aqua linked to said he didn't have steroids in him.

But, like Kami linked to, other people said he did.

[Aqua]

From what I've heard he had perscribed "testosterone" on his system which, depending on who you ask, is steroids.

This whole conversation blows me away. Those of you who are still defending this guy need to go back to about the 9th page of this thread and read some of the stupid shit that's been said in his defense. Everyone's trying so damned hard to defend a man they've never even met. For all you know he could have been a child molester. I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying he could just as easilly be that as he could be this great guy you all seem to think he is. The proof points pretty strongly in one, and only one direction. Those who first defended the 'honor' of Benoit's career because he resisted roid/ testerone temptation can now gtfo because there is clear evidence that that is not the case.

A child has been murdered, smothered to death (though thank god it seems he was sedated so maybe he didnt feel much pain). Fucking smothered! The people who investigate this stuff for a living, not the ones who sit on their asses speculating in an attempt to salvage the mental image of a childhood hero, have stated quite clearly what the facts appear to suggest. Does that mean that he's 100% proven guilty at this point? I'd say no, not based on publically released information alone. However, I'd ballpark it at about 99% myself and those that are all "I'll never be conviced" are very much in denial and very much opposed to seeing reason.

If barney went on a rampage, stabbing 97 school girls to death he isn't innocent just because those who remember him fondly want him to be.

I'm not saying "bow down and admit he was scum!" I'm saying chalk it up, the evidence seems to suggest his guilt quite clearly. There is no way that a reasonable person could feel just as certain that he is innocent as I do that he's guilty. To do so would be to deny the evidence that's been released. I can't wait for the full report to come out.

[Raditzu]

Oh get over it, Aqua. Not everyone has to be as disgusted and revolted as you are.

If they want to defend someone, that's their business. Your trying to force Benoit's guilt onto people is no less ridiculous than the people defending him.

[Aqua]

I'm not saying "bow down and admit he was scum!" I'm saying chalk it up, the evidence seems to suggest his guilt quite clearly. There is no way that a reasonable person could feel just as certain that he is innocent as I do that he's guilty. To do so would be to deny the evidence that's been released.

I have evidence backing my opinion. Others have their personal opinion about a man they've never met. One seems to trump the other.

If barney went on a rampage, stabbing 97 school girls to death he isn't innocent just because those who remember him fondly want him to be.

[Raditzu]

No. One does not trump the other because an opinion is not inherently right or wrong, regardless of the evidence to "back" it.

Its that exact kind of thinking that prompts this immature attitude of trying to prove that what someone thinks is wrong. Its their life, let them live with whatever illusions they want to.

It is neither your place, nor your right, to try and prove someone's opinion is wrong.

[Krillin]

But if it's his opinion that it's alright to prove someone else right or wrong, who are you to try to prove that his opinion is wrong? =)

[Violet]

Eh fuck it. I don't want to debate this issue because it just seems that I am on the losing end of this arguement. I'll just continue to believe what I believe to myself, lol.

[Raditzu]

I'm actually somewhat surprised. Generally that kind of comment would have had me pretty pissed off.

I actually lawled. To show my appreciation, I'm not going to ban Krillin.

[Krillin]

Thanks, you're a pal.

[Aqua]

I'm all for opinions, but when it comes to the death of a child its the facts that matter, not the opinions. Anywho, we'll see what comes out with the complete report.

[Raditzu]

You don't seem to understand that not everyone has to form their opinions the same way you do. A child's death doesn't change that.

[Aqua]

When discussing the death of anyone, let alone a child, I don't see how opinions should be formed on anything other than fact. You're right.