kdk,,v so ff !!!!!

[Krillin]

Originally posted by Recoome
Thats if more people catch on to the hint that gasoline and water isnt a magic crop that wont be around forever. >.>

Where do you get the idea that water isn't going to be around forever? Sure, it might disappear SOMEDAY, but that would be so many billion years in the future, we might not worry about it now. Water is constantly being replenished by things around us. Many natural chemical processes produce water.

Hydrogen fuel systems. Gah, I hate oil. If we can switch to the most abundant element known to mankind, then we could greatly reduce costs each year. I hear Iceland already has 2 hydrogen fueling stations

Most abundant? Depends on if we're talking about the Universe, or the Earth's Crust. The Earth's Crust is about 46.6% Oxygen, and 27.7 Silicon (the stuff our pop stars are made out of). Hydrogen makes less than 2% of the Earth's Crust.

On the other hand, Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe BY FAR. It is estimated that 75% of the Universe is composed of Hydrogen, with most of the remaining 25% filled with Helium. Everything else is remarkedly scarce.

Question is, would we be able to extract the Hydrogen out of the Universe easily and cost-efficiently? I can't imagine.

On a side note, one gallon of water has the locked energy of one hundred gallons of gasoline. How do we unlock that energy? Nuclear power. That's the way of the future, and that's the best advancement we could make: Safety.

[Amadeus]

Some of these advancements already exist:

-cure for cancer: As you know, Gama rays are the most powerful and dangerous nuclear rays around. In large quantities, they will kill you preety quickly. HOWEVER, if used in small quantities, Gama rays can cure cancer beacuse cancer cells die a lot quicker then healthy cells.

-safe transportation (partially): Ever heard of trains? Trains are the safest, most economical and ecologicly safe transport.
Safe, beacuse the only way an accident could happen is if the tracks where destroyed and that usually happens beacuse of intentional pourpouses. Anyway, theres a lot less accidents with trains then with cars and airplanes.
Economical beacuse the source that it mostly uses is cheap. Not to mention that the Japs are now planning to use magnets for train travelling.
Ecologicly safe beacuse if we count out the used land for the tracks it doesnt interfere the nature. Sure, trains will make sound when travelling, but they pass once and then dont come back for quite some time.

Ok now to the ones for the future.

I personally would much rather see development on sun cells rather then hydrogen fuel cells. Hydrogen is an extremely dangerous gas, which explodes if you even mention oxygen. On the other hand, the sun is safe and will shine for another 5 billion years. The weather does restrict the use, but like I said they should develop the sun cells so much they would be able to extract large quantities of electricity from the sun rays when they do shine.

It will take a while before laser weapons will be developed enough to be put to use, especially if where talking about lightsabers. However, sound weapons are much more of a reality. Sound weapons would make enough sounds to shock the enemy, thus making him uncouncuess.

I dont like the idea of Nuclear Power. While it is efficient, it is extremely dangerous. We are not developed enough to avoid accidents like Chernobil. Nuclear waste is also an important issue since it takes them a LOOOOOOOONG time before they loose their radiation. The problem of storing shows up preety quickly. And what if there will be a catastrophy that will cause the modern world to fall and the people to become prehistoric people again? What will happen if they find this and out of curiosity unleash it? So no, I dont think nuclear power is the way to go.

[Amadeus]

Of course, extremes are possible. But highly unlickely. And yes, nature does have its ways. But as long as we keep it stable, it will stay stable.

[Toshiro]

Originally posted by Nappa
HeHe that would be fun seeing the sun disintegrate =)

You think it would be fun to suddenly drop to tempreures thatwill freeze us in a few minutes? And then the resulting explosion from the sun as it compresses in to it self, then expand at a rate faster then some one can move as it turns in to a super nova.

That would be real great to watch the planet, & ever thing on it, most likely destoryed isn't it?

[Ruhiel]

Pikkon, things die. The fact that humans survive because the sun is still around has nothing to do with the fact we eat animals and plants. We're omnivores. Even if we weren't around, plants and animals would still die. Just as life is born as well. So, if the sun "disintegrated", which it wouldn't, it would swell up to a red giant, burn anything and everything on earth to ashes, and then decrease in size until it became a white dwarf, and then went nova.

Death is a part of life, you can't escape it. And while humans may be "killing" the planet, and I admit, I wish we were doing a better job at protecting it, the earth would still deteriorate either way.

[Toshiro]

Originally posted by Lord Slug

Originally posted by Janemba

Originally posted by Nappa
HeHe that would be fun seeing the sun disintegrate =)

You think it would be fun to suddenly drop to tempreures thatwill freeze us in a few minutes? And then the resulting explosion from the sun as it compresses in to it self, then expand at a rate faster then some one can move as it turns in to a super nova.

That would be real great to watch the planet, & ever thing on it, most likely destoryed isn't it?

It would take 8 mintues for the last lights of the sun to reach earth from the moment it goes dead. Then we could still last an hour or two...depending on what time of day the sun died on the heat stored by the buildings and concrete.

Kinda fucked if you live in the country then huh?

[Ruhiel]

You're right, for every human that dies, another isn't born.

TWO are.

It's a proven fact. Every 4 seconds, someone dies. Every 2 seconds, someone is born. Now that isn't exact, but spread out the number of deaths and births each year, and that's what you'll come up with when you spread it out.

You sound like Loch in the Leviathan, making it seem like humans are naturally bad. Sure, there are a few psychopaths out there, but I believe that humans are naturally good, and try to do the right thing. We try to protect the planet, but indirectly something else is caused. For something to be gained, something else must be lost. At least in most cases.

And all life forms are here for a reason. While I still don't know why yet, mosquitoes are here for a reason as well, even though their just blood suckers that commute more diseases than you can poke a stick at. All life forms have a purpose, as do we.

Travel to other galaxies? Please. We still haven't gotten past the moon, let alone know for sure what's beyond the ort cloud.

Now I don't know about you, but I'm happy to be alive. If all human life was suddenly wiped out, there was probably a reason for it, but I wouldn't be happy being dead.

The only truth I really saw in your message is that yes, we all do try to do our part, but this is mainly because society as a whole is mindless and bloodthirsty. Read A Tale of Two Cities and you'll know why humans as a group are terrible. But, each of us individually are (in most cases) good people.

[Ruhiel]

Originally posted by Android 20
You're right, for every human that dies, another isn't born.

TWO are.

It's a proven fact. Every 4 seconds, someone dies. Every 2 seconds, someone is born. Now that isn't exact, but spread out the number of deaths and births each year, and that's what you'll come up with when you spread it out.

You sound like Loch in the Leviathan, making it seem like humans are naturally bad. Sure, there are a few psychopaths out there, but I believe that humans are naturally good, and try to do the right thing. We try to protect the planet, but indirectly something else is caused. For something to be gained, something else must be lost. At least in most cases.

And all life forms are here for a reason. While I still don't know why yet, mosquitoes are here for a reason as well, even though their just blood suckers that commute more diseases than you can poke a stick at. All life forms have a purpose, as do we.

Travel to other galaxies? Please. We still haven't gotten past the moon, let alone know for sure what's beyond the ort cloud.

Now I don't know about you, but I'm happy to be alive. If all human life was suddenly wiped out, there was probably a reason for it, but I wouldn't be happy being dead.

The only truth I really saw in your message is that yes, we all do try to do our part, but this is mainly because society as a whole is mindless and bloodthirsty. Read A Tale of Two Cities and you'll know why humans as a group are terrible. But, each of us individually are (in most cases) good people.

EDIT: Buys a "I Saw The Apocalypse!" T-Shirt
Double Edit: DOH! I hit the quote button!

[Krillin]

This is a hard discussion to actually fight about because we are going by predetermined definitions of Good and Evil, gathered from the Bible. So, it's all pretty much pointless. By the standards of the Bible, though, I believe that man is inherently bad.

[Ruhiel]

Next time could you word that a little differently? I had to reread that to understand what you were saying.

Humans, when born, are completely innocent, without any grasp of what is "good" and what is "bad"
(Wait, weren't you saying earlier that humans were bad? If there's no such thing as good or bad, then how could humans be a plague to life?)
It's simply how they are taught to view the world, and how to get by. To them, it may not seem bad, or wrong, but to the rest of society, it still is.

Instinct is what drives them, but no matter what, unless you have that weird disorder that gives you no morals, everyone has some grasp of what is right and what is not a good thing to do.

And you're only half right. There's always gonna be SOMEONE who thinks what you're doing is bad. You could help save some poor cute puppy who was crossing the street and almost got hit by a car, and there's gonna be one person who has something to complain about.

Utilitarianism. You can never please everyone, but more often than not, try to fill the needs of the largest group.

EDIT: Meh, I guess you're right. I'll agree with you, Krillen. Based on the Bible, I would say people are naturally evil, but based on ethical and moral views, I'd say their still a bit more to the good side. But let's stop this now, unless Pikkon wants to put in his final say.

[Toshiro]

It's like it's said in SW & has been my opinion on it all along.

Good & bad is a point of view. I mean shit, Hitler started the war becuase he saw what he was doing as a rightous act for god & all that shit. But people saw that as a shit stupid & evil idea, so they attacked him in the name of good.

IF some one can truely give a ultimate true meaning of good & bad, I'd like to see them not go about using the term's of "point of view". Becuase if that can be done, then there is true innocence & good & bad out there. Other wise, it's all a load of bull shit fed to the people to keep them in line.

It's like heaven & hell, whats to say that some one who commited death is going to hell if they saw it as good?

Also, the Bible can only offer the "good" advice to people. Is that why in the old day's, they had to make ever one turn in to a christian to be deemed as good? Back then, people cared for the fact's of black & white, christian & non christian. If thats how people still wanna preseve it, in some sense, then you still looking at good & evil.

[Ruhiel]

Ja-whoozawatzit now? You're on GMC? *goes to check*

Woah, I never even knew.
Hah! I made you think I was typing something I didn't want you to read!

But yeah, Janemba hit that one on the head. I was just going by my definitions of good and bad, and what most of the world seems to accept.

However, I still say that killing people is wrong, regardless of what you think. Killing someone, no matter what they did, should never be acceptable.

[Toshiro]

Originally posted by Android 20
Ja-whoozawatzit now? You're on GMC? *goes to check*

Woah, I never even knew.
Hah! I made you think I was typing something I didn't want you to read!

But yeah, Janemba hit that one on the head. I was just going by my definitions of good and bad, and what most of the world seems to accept.

However, I still say that killing people is wrong, regardless of what you think. Killing someone, no matter what they did, should never be acceptable.

Would that include (in years to come) a person who would rape your child/wife? Or put a knife to your thoart? You gotta think about it, at some point or another, or in some sort of incident, you may have to kill, or have the urge to kill. If you got the bottle (or the anger) you would do it. You would see it as an act of jusitice if the police & such do fuck all.

Answer that one..

[Ruhiel]

Yeah, that was the old Nappa. So, when you joined, you were still on the alliance because the old Nappa was. If you don't want to stay, then you don't have to, but I'm not going to force you to leave or anything. Members are always a good thing.

[Ruhiel]

Even still, I wouldn't kill that person. I would give them hell, but I would not kill them. It still seems wrong, and that would only be stooping to their level. Sure, everyone would have the urge to kill, but you have to restrain yourself.
You have every right to defend yourself, and if you accidently DO kill them, then I believe you would have a hard time living with yourself, but the fact that you INTEND to kill them is entirely different.

EDIT: But just cuz I'm saying that doesn't mean I'm some hardcore pacifist. I believe wars have to happen, even though it would be best to avoid them. Sure, I sound like I'm contradicting myself, but wars are different to me. If you don't fight back, then it will cause even more deaths...

[Toshiro]

I can sit here & easily tell you if I had the chance to kill some one who has raped, murder, abused their spouse/wife, is a pedo etc, I would have no problem with it. The same for if I landed them in hospital. I honestly wouldn't give a flying hoot.

Beucase in MY view of justice, those types of people shouldn't be allowed to live. Suing them & putting them in jail does what? Sort them out? Those sort of people can never truely be changed.

[Ruhiel]

Ah, I wasn't saying I wouldn't hurt them. I just said I wouldn't go so far as to kill them. If someone did any of those things... I would make sure they were hurt... badly. Heck, you've read what I've posted about the jerks at Toma's school.




This topic is getting a bit too far now.

[Toshiro]

Originally posted by Pikkon
I say when people go to jail they deserve the same punishment that they had committed, so if someone killed a guy, then they would get killed.

Reverting back to the oldish style of thinking? Such as corpral(sp?) punishment?

If so, I kinda agree, but if it's some type of stupid, lil crime (eg bread snatching) then no point. A crime like robbery, should be treated with a heavy fine, & jailment. Something such as rape, etc, should be given either some thing equal to it, or worse then..

[Toshiro]

A weapon to kill you *stares at Rec*

[Hellfighter 17]

Originally posted by Pikkon
I say when people go to jail they deserve the same punishment that they had committed, so if someone killed a guy, then they would get killed.

I despise Hamurabi (sp?). Though, I think it is wrong and know it is wrong, I would still hate and probably kill the person if they hurt someone I careen how we think emotionally and logically.

The logical side of us is normally the side that feeds the moral grounds and our views. Emotion can also have their interpretation on these two. Logical thinking is what we know and think, it helps us decide what to do when we are at crossraods but are basically neutral to teh subject. Our sense of morals are more commonly based upon our scoiety/societies (because your household, your school, your neighborhood, etc. can all be different forms of scoieties). This is because what we grow up with is influences how we determine "right" and "wrong" from one another.

"It is one's responsibility to determine the difference of right and wrong for them, but never to persecute another for those differences." (I love this quote, it's one of my favourite to use. ^_^)

The emotional side helps set how we react to different subjects based on all of the varying circumstances. This may can also be influenced by our logical side, unless we are biased to the subject. Our emotional side is what helps us decide what to do when w ehit the crossraods and we are involved eitehr first- or second-hand. This is normally based upon how stronbg of a connection we have formed to teh subject at hand and our personal set of morals, but also to how we were feeling beforehand.

Personally, I believe that there is no real rigth and wrong, but then again that is just my logical side talking, the emotional part of me knows what I would do wehn teh situation came to hand, but that does NOT make it right, so the eye-for-an-eye philosiphy just doesn't work for me, I'm more of Ghandi "An eye for and eye leaves the whole world blind" kind of guy. People are not advanced in comparison to animals in any way, 'cause that would just be an indifference of opinion right there.

0wnag3