DOMINION

[Vad]

Balls. Need to find a place for Le Blanc in all of this.

[Jonathan Meer]

My guess: there won't be much of a place for squishy assassins in Dom.

[Kaden]

I think there definitely will be. If people are standing around capturing, you can position perfectly before going in.

I wouldn't, like, run a team of more than one, but I think they'll have a place. Assassins are usually pretty mobile, which will probably be pretty important. Kassadin will probably be a beast.

[Belle Hibiki]

It's coming out "shortly after" PAX Prime, where the map will be available for play, as well as at GamesCom. PAX Prime is August 26-28. GamesCom is even sooner: Aug 17-21.

I understand the pessimism some people have towards Riot's schedule, but this sounds like they've got their ducks in a row. People are going to be playing it in less than two weeks. Riot has given specific dates. It'll probably be on live servers within two weeks of Pax Prime ending.

[Sigfried Hunin]

@ Jarka and Kaden


Just because it can't be helped doesn't make it NOT like that. If gameplay experience isn't balanced, it's still fucked, no matter what can or cannot be done about it. WoW was constantly a shitstorm because they couldn't balance. Any game that gives dynamic, alternating powers to a single character and expects it to balance out with other character with OTHER dynamic, alternating powers and they all have access to different combinations of items and that kinda shit won't be balanced.

That DOESN'T mean that new content isn't gonna come out NOT fucked up. It's gonna be fucked up. That's the entire point I was making. Not everything that people say that's negative about a game is a direct attack on its creators, it's just a FLAW OF THE GAME. I'm sure you'll both read that and wanna cry about how it's not their fault, but that's, once again, not what I'm saying.

A new mode with a new map with the same characters and (mostly) the same items is just gonna be... god it's gonna be all kinds of shitstorm. Certain characters will excel greatly and others will suck ass, item combos will be all fucking crazy and build types will just be flat out OP and if you try to disagree with that you're being STUPID.

[Jarka]

@ Jarka and Kaden


Just because it can't be helped doesn't make it NOT like that. If gameplay experience isn't balanced, it's still fucked, no matter what can or cannot be done about it. WoW was constantly a shitstorm because they couldn't balance. Any game that gives dynamic, alternating powers to a single character and expects it to balance out with other character with OTHER dynamic, alternating powers and they all have access to different combinations of items and that kinda shit won't be balanced.

That DOESN'T mean that new content isn't gonna come out NOT fucked up. It's gonna be fucked up. That's the entire point I was making. Not everything that people say that's negative about a game is a direct attack on its creators, it's just a FLAW OF THE GAME. I'm sure you'll both read that and wanna cry about how it's not their fault, but that's, once again, not what I'm saying.

A new mode with a new map with the same characters and (mostly) the same items is just gonna be... god it's gonna be all kinds of shitstorm. Certain characters will excel greatly and others will suck ass, item combos will be all fucking crazy and build types will just be flat out OP and if you try to disagree with that you're being STUPID.

Right, because Kaden and I were totally crying over what you said. We mad, bro. We mad.

What I don't understand is how you think this game is so FUCKED UP and HORRIBLE and FLAWED. Especially since, when Riot notices the meta overusing/underusing a champ, they will make tiny adjustments to the champion to make sure they are right in line where they should be. Hence the bi-weekly patches. LoL is probably the most balanced game I've ever played because of that, which is why I love it so much. For any powerful champ, there is a counter. Are you getting focused by Caitlyn and her stupid freaking range? Buy a Thornmail. Karthus ult making you weep? Banshee's Veil completely negates it. Sick of running into 'shrooms? Too bad, because Teemo is awesome (okay, you can buy an Oracle's Elixer, I guess). Ranked gives you even more of an opportunity to balance thanks to draft mode.

I mean, you're complaining about dynamic abilities and the interaction between characters with other dynamic abilities and that's impossible to ever balance everrrrrrr. That's no fucking different than pen and paper RPGs. In fact, pen and papers are probably even more imbalanced because the players are pretty much only limited by their imagination, as opposed to the technical limitations of a programmed game.

I'm just not really sure what you mean by the game being broken as fuck, I suppose. If that were the case, you could pick a champ and win with that champ 100% of the time. With the exception of Tryg's Gangplank, that just doesn't happen, or you would see that champ in every. single. match. Aside from weekly rotation champs being a tad more popular, that really isn't the case at all.

Nobody has said that different champs won't excel in the gameplay of Dominion. In fact, all of us seem to be pretty excited to see what champs will really shine in that playstyle, since it won't be the standard laning "keep minions between me and blitz" style play. Just like on Summoner's Rift and Twisted Treeline, however, it's going to be based more off of team composition more than an individual choice.

I have no problem with criticizing game designers or companies. I just think you're completely wrong in saying this game is totally fucked up and imbalanced and it will be IMPOSSIBLE for them to BALANCE the game.

[Kaden]

@ Jarka and Kaden


Just because it can't be helped doesn't make it NOT like that. If gameplay experience isn't balanced, it's still fucked, no matter what can or cannot be done about it. WoW was constantly a shitstorm because they couldn't balance. Any game that gives dynamic, alternating powers to a single character and expects it to balance out with other character with OTHER dynamic, alternating powers and they all have access to different combinations of items and that kinda shit won't be balanced.

That DOESN'T mean that new content isn't gonna come out NOT fucked up. It's gonna be fucked up. That's the entire point I was making. Not everything that people say that's negative about a game is a direct attack on its creators, it's just a FLAW OF THE GAME. I'm sure you'll both read that and wanna cry about how it's not their fault, but that's, once again, not what I'm saying.

A new mode with a new map with the same characters and (mostly) the same items is just gonna be... god it's gonna be all kinds of shitstorm. Certain characters will excel greatly and others will suck ass, item combos will be all fucking crazy and build types will just be flat out OP and if you try to disagree with that you're being STUPID.

Except that's not at all what you were saying. If you had posted something like "things are going to be crazy with champs trying to do completely new things" than I would have 100% agreed with you.

Instead you said:

Seriously though, I was just thinking how irritatingly linear the fucking lanes were and how much I would enjoy a map control/management game would be more fun. Then they do it! Maybe. Unless they fuck it up.

Which they prolly will.

Nowhere in that post is anything resembling what you claim you were trying to say.

You say we're just blindly defending something when, in fact, we're trying to address what was, at the time, someone blindly attacking something.

You also claim that "Riot's going to fuck it up" is negative without being an attack on Riot themselves. I don't understand how that is the case at all.

If you want say I'm just a fanboy, that's cool. I don't actually care, but read what we were actually responding to. Read the post you actually made, not the post you thought you were making. Like I said, if you had made your current claims in that first post, I would have been completely with you.

[Sigfried Hunin]

@Jarka

I'm not COMPLAINING about anything, I'm stating FACT. I'm not saying the game is IMPOSSIBLY FUCKED AND UNPLAYABLE I'm saying that with the number things to factor in you're going to try and hit a sweet spot and continually make tweaks to make as perfect as possible, which is what they're obviously doing. If the game was unplayable, I obviously wouldn't fucking play it.

Which what I obviously fucking said in my previous post.

IT IS. NOT POSSIBLE. To fully balance that game. A pen and Paper is a different story because there's an active storyteller changing the story and mechanics to suit the needs of the game. That's a completely moot point.

The MAIN reason I even responded to you is because you fucking herald this bullshit sense of superiority and fucking BULLSHIT over analyzing over a simple ass statement that, BLATANTLY said I was exited, despite being cynical because of the unlikelihood of it coming out great. I'm sorry I'm fucking skeptical of a game that obviously struggles with and suffers from the same balancing issues as every other game in the genre. WHOOPS, I GUESS MY OBSERVATION OF IMPERFECTION MAKES ME A CRAZY FUCKER WHO JUST HATES THE GAME AND ITS MAKERS.

It's not perfect. It never will be, and I already listed the reasons why. It's not BROKEN but it's sure as fuck not BALANCED, and you meta-game your way around that sometimes.

When was the last time you saw all those champs that never ever ever get played? There are simply champs better suited to play, because it's just the way the fuckin game works, and that's that. I'm not saying there aren't players who CAN'T make unplayed characters playable, or that it's not possible to make them good (EG: Ezreal, who sucked donkey balls before his last buff), but the very simple fact is that there ARE characters that sucks, and that's gonna fucking happen.

Once again: New map, new GAME, old characters which have been fine tuned for a DIFFERENT GAME. Shit is gonna be CRAZY AS FUCK. It will NOT be ideal. It will NOT work out great.

Am I excited? Yes. Still gonna be fucking weird, and crazy and it's gonna be less balanced than the ORIGINAL game is.

@ Kaden

You're right. I didn't explain the entire spectrum of my interpretation of Riot's balancing and playability issues in five sentences. Sorry for your confusion.

[Kaden]

@ Kaden

You're right. I didn't explain the entire spectrum of my interpretation of Riot's balancing and playability issues in five sentences. Sorry for your confusion.

S'all good, bro.

[Sigfried Hunin]

S'all good, bro.

AND THEN WE WERE PALS AGAIN, HUZZAH!

[Super Buu]

I pretty much agree with Sig. For me it's simply the number of champions and the need to make them all interesting. To me that's a tradeoff I don't mind taking in return for having balance be much more difficult to achieve.

[Jarka]

@Jarka

I'm not COMPLAINING about anything, I'm stating FACT. I'm not saying the game is IMPOSSIBLY FUCKED AND UNPLAYABLE I'm saying that with the number things to factor in you're going to try and hit a sweet spot and continually make tweaks to make as perfect as possible, which is what they're obviously doing. If the game was unplayable, I obviously wouldn't fucking play it.

Which what I obviously fucking said in my previous post.

IT IS. NOT POSSIBLE. To fully balance that game. A pen and Paper is a different story because there's an active storyteller changing the story and mechanics to suit the needs of the game. That's a completely moot point.

The MAIN reason I even responded to you is because you fucking herald this bullshit sense of superiority and fucking BULLSHIT over analyzing over a simple ass statement that, BLATANTLY said I was exited, despite being cynical because of the unlikelihood of it coming out great. I'm sorry I'm fucking skeptical of a game that obviously struggles with and suffers from the same balancing issues as every other game in the genre. WHOOPS, I GUESS MY OBSERVATION OF IMPERFECTION MAKES ME A CRAZY FUCKER WHO JUST HATES THE GAME AND ITS MAKERS.

It's not perfect. It never will be, and I already listed the reasons why. It's not BROKEN but it's sure as fuck not BALANCED, and you meta-game your way around that sometimes.

When was the last time you saw all those champs that never ever ever get played? There are simply champs better suited to play, because it's just the way the fuckin game works, and that's that. I'm not saying there aren't players who CAN'T make unplayed characters playable, or that it's not possible to make them good (EG: Ezreal, who sucked donkey balls before his last buff), but the very simple fact is that there ARE characters that sucks, and that's gonna fucking happen.

Once again: New map, new GAME, old characters which have been fine tuned for a DIFFERENT GAME. Shit is gonna be CRAZY AS FUCK. It will NOT be ideal. It will NOT work out great.

Am I excited? Yes. Still gonna be fucking weird, and crazy and it's gonna be less balanced than the ORIGINAL game is.

@ Kaden

You're right. I didn't explain the entire spectrum of my interpretation of Riot's balancing and playability issues in five sentences. Sorry for your confusion.

Well, when you put it that way, I guess we are having a civil discussion.

[Kaden]

AND THEN WE WERE PALS AGAIN, HUZZAH!

Actually not.


As an admin: chill out. You are being way too aggressive and just getting out of hand about nothing. Regardless of what the individual opinions are, you are not expressing yours in an appropriate way. Jarka responded to you with some of her own attitude, yes, and I can understand how our posts may have gotten under your skin, but you need to deal with that. No one is swearing at you (directly) or insulting you or calling you names. You have been doing all of that and need to either stop and post in a reasonable manner or remove yourself from the conversation.

[Ashe]

Actually not.


As an admin: chill out. You are being way too aggressive and just getting out of hand about nothing. Regardless of what the individual opinions are, you are not expressing yours in an appropriate way. Jarka responded to you with some of her own attitude, yes, and I can understand how our posts may have gotten under your skin, but you need to deal with that. No one is swearing at you (directly) or insulting you or calling you names. You have been doing all of that and need to either stop and post in a reasonable manner or remove yourself from the conversation.

Sig, I have to say that I agree with this. As soon as you made your first post, I removed myself from the conversation. I have gotten the same impressions from your posts that has been complained about and that made me not want to respond to what should have been a civil argument out of knowing that it was going to grow into more. It did appear to me that you started off saying one argument and then moved the goal post to appear to be arguing something entirely different. Your stance is that this is not what happened and that everyone else is just misunderstanding you.

That's all that needed to be said, if that's the case. There's no reason for posting what translates as the guy from Full Metal Jacket browbeating a new recruit into submission, as far as your approach to their arguments go. I'd absolutely recommend dropping this conversation if that is how things will continue, even if that same tone is going to be used to defend against accusations that there is any aggressive tone at all in your posts.

[Sigfried Hunin]

My original reply included SWEARING. I'm sorry that I SWEAR. All of the arguments I made were reasonable and in direct response to the statements made.

The post AFTER that, where I was directly attacked by Jarka being snarky and full of shit was ALSO snarky and full of shit. I responded to Kaden's with an apology.

I never MADE and argument with my first post. I was just CHATTING. The fact that every single fucking sentence is analyzed and criticized as though it's a ten page review is what STARTS this shit. I will NOT be spoken down to over ONE SENTENCE and I sure as fuck will not neglect to retort to any bullshit "YOU MAD BRO" statements. Period. EVER.

My first response had swears in it. DUN DUN DUNNNN. I swear all the goddamn time, in my posts, in my writing, in my life. I will continue to swear. My first response was not inflammatory, it was nothing but a response to what I feel was a fucking COME DOWN on a single goddamn statement where I EXPRESSED EXCITEMENT, but then cautious cynicism.

It has reasonable, rational statements, and no overt attacks. I say "Im sure you'll X" as a pre-response, as me predicting the direction of the conversation.


As far as the "HUZZAH" statement, hooray fucking sarcasm.

[Vad]

*sigh*

[Kaden]

Thank you, Vad. That's the kind of helpful, constructive post I expect from the staff.

Thread locked. Awesome. Sigfried, I'm going to PM you.